How to sell from the stage with Dustin Mathews

Speaker 1:

If you’re going to take the risk of running an agency, shouldn’t you get the benefits too? Welcome to Agency Management Institute’s Build a Better Agency podcast presented by HubSpot. We’ll show you how to build an agency that can scale and grow with better clients, invested employees, and best of all, more money to the bottom line. Bringing his 25 plus years of experience as both an agency owner and agency consultant, please welcome your host, Drew McLellan.

Drew McLellan:

Hey, everybody. Drew McLellan here with another episode of Build a Better Agency. One of the things that is true about our business and I don’t care if you run a media shop, or a web dev shop or a traditional ad agency, we are literally and figuratively on stage every single day, whether you’re on the phone with a client in a Zoom meeting, standing at a conference on the stage, presenting something that is thought leadership piece for you. We are constantly presenting, and the guest that I have today is going to talk to us about how to do that bigger and better and bolder.

So let me tell you a little bit about him, because I want to jump right into the conversation. So Dustin Mathews is an author of many best selling books and has shared the stage with athletes, business celebrities and the titans of business. His latest book, The No BS Guide to Powerful Presentations, how to sell anything with webinars and online media speeches and seminars is going to be a book that you are going to not only read, but underline and highlight and share with others. That I promise you.

Dustin is known for creating marketplace frenzies that drive people to buy products in mass. His companies and private clients have been featured on Forbes, Entrepreneur, Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Inc. Magazine. He has literally marketed and filled over 3,000 events and has led 10 online product launches. He and his work have generated over $43 million in sales. So as a part of him prepping for the work that he’s doing today, he did some recent research and he has now identified a process for creating and selling products and services that he calls the Irresistible Offer Architecture, which we’re going to dig into.

That is so unique that he was able to get recognition by the US Patent and Trademark Office. So I can’t wait to have this conversation.   that I’m presenting everyday, heck I’m presenting to you right now, even though odds are you’re just listening to me. So I’m going to be taking copious notes. So with that, Dustin, welcome to the show.

Dustin Mathews:

Drew, I’m thrilled and fired up to be here and share what wisdom I can to make us all get more clients and have more fun, that’s for sure.

Drew McLellan:

I like it. I like it. So, as I said in the intro, agency folks are constantly presenting, and yet, for most of them, they would rather chew off their own left foot than step on a stage or be in front of a big crowd, and that’s a pretty common fear, isn’t it?

Dustin Mathews:

Yeah, absolutely. I’ll share this. I wasn’t the guy that wanted to do it either. So I can totally relate. In school, I was so motivated to not do this, present in front of others on a stage and in microphones that I found a loophole to get out of public speaking. So I think it’s funny now because I run a company called speakingempire.com that shows people how to do that and that’s been my passion, ever since I figured out that there’s a big benefit to doing it even though you may have fear, even though you may not want to do it.

Drew McLellan:

So my guess is that you present all the time given what it is you have expertise in. So how did you go from the kid who dodged the class and would have done anything not to speak to being comfortable in any setting, whether it’s you’re presenting to one person or 10,000?

Dustin Mathews:

Well, I think two things. One is trial by fire. So everyone wants to shortcut. Heck, I want shortcuts and other parts of my business. Things that I’m not the expert at, like HR, and processes and systems. So I’m always looking for the guy or the shortcut or the book. So I think it’s funny, because at the end of the day, to really be a master, to really get expertise in any area and results, you have to dive in. So I was fortunate to have a mentor push me into the fire and I just simply had to do it.

Drew McLellan:

I think for agency folks, we are doing it every day, whether you like it or not. You may not be stepping on a stage to speak at a conference or trade show, but you’re presenting every single day. Even when you’re presenting to your employees, you’re presenting. So I think part of it is also a mindset of recognizing that you’ve already done it thousands and thousands of times and nobody died. Your pants didn’t drop, there was nothing horrible happened. Even if you weren’t as eloquent as you want it to be, as long as you get your message across, okay.

Dustin Mathews:

Drew, you’re absolutely right. Once I figured out that I needed to do it, then I started looking at all the things, and I didn’t have this stuff even five years ago, but if you look at podcasts, Facebook Lives, Periscopes, heck, one-on-one meetings or board meetings or department meetings, we all are presenting, and we have an opportunity to try a little material. The thing I like to share, Drew is this.

I think of a comedian, let’s say Chris Rock. Before he goes out on his world tour, or shows on HBO, he’s in the little dive comedy club under a pen name trying out material. So whether you’re an agency owner, or part of the agency staff, we have these opportunities where we can try a little material and wrap it into … Maybe, we speak on a stage or maybe we’ve got that webinar coming up. So practice, test the material, get that feedback, because you’re already doing it anyway. It’s just bringing that awareness.

Drew McLellan:

So clearly, by writing the book, you have an opinion that not only is it something we’re doing every day, but that there’s value in it. So talk to us a little bit about how you, again, evolved your opinion about this, and to the point where you now believe it’s really one of the most powerful ways to communicate.

Dustin Mathews:

That’s a good question. So I think back to when I first … I left school and my mentor made me do it. So here I was, and if you see a picture of me or happen to catch a clip or something online, you’ll see my face and you’ll see that I have somewhat of a … Drew, do I still have the baby face? Can you still see it?

Drew McLellan:

A little bit.

Dustin Mathews:

A little bit. With age, I’m learning it [inaudible 00:06:37]. When I was first getting started 10 years ago, I must have looked 16 at the time and talking to people, sometimes triple my age in the audience I said, “No one’s going to take me seriously.” So when I got up there I presented, it wasn’t as bad as I thought it was and people came up, and they bought, and they asked me questions.

So all this fear, it was a mindset. So the reason why I get so passionate about this is that it doesn’t matter your age, it doesn’t matter your race, your gender. If you’re in front of the right audience, and they have a big enough pain, they will listen to anybody to solve that pain. If you think about if you’ve ever had health issues, or know people in your family that may have had it, they’re a receptive crowd. So as long as you’re in front of that right crowd and you deliver the goods, you deliver value, then people will respond. So I recognized that early on, and now that’s been my passion to share it with others.

Drew McLellan:

So I know you hold the belief that a single presentation can literally make you rich, and that most people don’t approach presentations, again, whether they’re informal or formal, with that mindset. So help us wrap our head around that idea a little bit, and how does one change their frame of reference so that they do approach those presentations with the weight that they deserve?

Dustin Mathews:

Well, that’s a good point. So I will say this, politicians, whether you’re into politics or not, they’re known for having a stump speech. I think as an agency owner, you ought to have a stump speech. Not to say that you’re not going to customize if you’re in front of a Fortune 500, or you’re in front of Mom and Pop store. Yes, there will be customization, just like a politician will customize depending on if he’s speaking, or she’s speaking to union workers, or the teachers’ guild or whatever.

So you ought to have some form of message that 75 to 80% is the same thing, but you customize and tweak it. So in the agency world, what I see a huge opportunity is this idea of running a webinar, whether you automate it, or you train team members, or you’re doing it yourself, having this speech that really sets up appointments.

So I know that’s a big claim that one presentation can make you rich or make me wealthy, but it’s absolutely true. Because when you start to design it, when you start to put together a message, not just to educate people, but get people into action, that’s where it can make you rich. What I mean by that is donations, appointments, if you’re setting appointments, or if you’re in a position to ask for the sale from the stage or from a webinar, then do that.

The challenge is most people wait to the night before, they don’t give it really much thought, they’re teaching too much and they’re not thinking about how do I give a message that gets people to take the next step that I would like them to take.

Drew McLellan:

Do most people try and get them to take too big … So they either go no step or they go right from walking in the bar, walking up to somebody and saying, “Hi, it’s really nice to meet you. Can I buy you a drink, and oh, do you want to get married?”

Dustin Mathews:

Well, yes, but that second, the first step is, oh, I’m going to teach you to death and I’m going to show you all the impressive accolades and all the features of what we’ve done here. Look at the 17 awards that we’ve won, and then there’s no close and there’s no call to action. So first is just trying to educate, hoping that someone will say, “Oh, wow, I really like him and his agency or her agency, and I take the next step.”

Then yes. Then there’s the second category, which is they go in for the sale. I see that a lot less than the first category, but yes, absolutely. So you’ve got to deliver value at the end of the day, and you’ve got to think about what’s the next step that you want them to take. It may be a sale, but oftentimes not.

Drew McLellan:

So especially if someone’s been invited to present at a conference or something like that, they’re often told not to sell from the stage. So how do you recommend someone bakes the, let’s take an action into a presentation like that, when they’ve sort of been given the message.

Dustin Mathews:

This is very good, because I know a lot of agency owners that present in that world. Associations, corporate environments, boardrooms, you can’t be so forward, as if you go to a seminar where you see people selling things. So I completely understand that. So Drew, you’re going to have to hold me back and chop me up a little bit, because I got a lot to say here.

Drew McLellan:

No. Bring it, bring it.

Dustin Mathews:

All right, remind me by the way, Drew, if we have time, I want to give the structure, the framework of five elements of a presentation, no matter what you’re doing. So remind me on that.

Drew McLellan:

We’ll get back to that, I promise.

Dustin Mathews:

So number one is if you can do it is bring a team. So if you’re going to speak in an environment, maybe there’s booths or there’s sponsors there. So yes, you can’t sell from the stage, however, you could direct people to your booth. So if you brought a team, you brought your sales executives, your sales personnel with you there, you could not sell, but you could drive people for free sessions or free critiques.

Let’s look at your Facebook account, let’s look at your ad spend. You could give them value from the state and say, “Listen, normally we charge X to do this. Because I’m here and speaking, go see the team in the back.” The second thing I would say is you should be generating leads. So there’s a bunch of cool tools that we use.

Fix Your Funnel, or basic SMS mobile text messaging. So let’s say you got 60 minutes to talk Drew. You got hours, you got days, you got years of content in your head, there’s no way you could get through. So that’s the pitch I use. “Hey, listen, I’m going to show you what’s working now. What’s best, as much as I can get in and they 60 minutes and there’s a bunch of resources I want to give you.”

So if you take out your phone right now, and you text, blah, blah, blah to blah, blah, blah, now we’re generating leads. So we’re not selling, we’re delivering value, we’re giving massive value. So I come in with that, doing SMS and then the other thing I do if Facebook is relevant, I tell people to go to our Facebook page and type in a word there and opt in there.

So not only do I get SMS, but I get people to opt in to Facebook through mini chat, if you’re curious. So I generate leads there and then ideally, if I can push them to a booth that I have, great, or the last option and I’ll be quiet here on this one, the last option is if it’s okay with the promoter, having a breakout lunch, or having a breakfast the next day, or depending on time-wise. So if you can’t sell in that environment, take them to an environment that you may be able to control.

Drew McLellan:

So you would invite them from the stage to this breakfast or lunch or whatever it is?

Dustin Mathews:

Absolutely.

Drew McLellan:

Is that what you’re saying?

Dustin Mathews:

Yeah, of course. I want to do a little asterisk here. Of course, with the promoter’s permission, because you don’t want to make them mad. You don’t want to do it during their time and you take 100 people out of the room, it would look bad. So you want to get that permission but if you can’t sell, say, great. Well, how can I at least generate leads, or how can I invite them to an environment I can control? Maybe it’s an after webinar, after the event webinar that they would get access to. Ideally, I want to get them there to have a conversation because it’s so strong to be personal face to face, but those are the scenarios that you can run.

Drew McLellan:

So one of the takeaways for me as I’m listening to you talk is, again, I’m not trying to drive to this sale, but I’ve been intentional about what is the action that I want them to take next.

Dustin Mathews:

Yes, and it doesn’t have to be one. So if you notice I said drive them mobile. Get them on Facebook. So now we can follow up after the fact, and then if you can be so bold or so forward to drive them to your booth, that’s another action or invite them to a lunch. I much prefer face to face interaction, because there’s power to that, but I also know sometimes the promoter, the speaker, the forum just won’t allow for that. So great, I’ll just generate leads and I’ll follow up with a few people.

Drew McLellan:

Do you recommend that you just weave and pepper those into your presentation? Do you start with that? Do you end with that or doesn’t it matter? Is there a proper place to put that?

Dustin Mathews:

Yeah, definitely I like to do it like a quarter of the way through and three quarters. So if you break up your presentation into four parts for this specific purpose, you want to build some rapport, you want to get up enrolling, you want people to start to love you and say, okay, there’s some value here. Then you say, “Listen, text in right now, if you want this.”

Then what I do is I go through my contact, I build more rapport, and then I give them another opportunity with Facebook now because this has recently come to pass. So the reason why I do that is maybe they get there late, or maybe they have to leave early, or maybe they’re not paying attention, or maybe they’re cranking out an email because they have a deadline to meet in the first part of my presentation.

So multiple calls to action throughout, but don’t do it right away because they don’t know who you are and why you’re relevant. Make sure to build that rapport and then towards the end, I would do it again.

Drew McLellan:

So this makes me think about the part of the book where you talk about the idea of choreography.

Dustin Mathews:

Yes.

Drew McLellan:

So can you knit those two ideas together for us?

Dustin Mathews:

Yeah, absolutely, and again, it doesn’t have to be the live environment because I know some agency owners and personnel are thinking, well, I’m not really speaking when I’m doing Zooms, or I’m doing webinars. So I think about speaking is marketing. So it’s just a subset of marketing. So choreography really is the big word. So meaning, what are the steps that have to occur? What are the yeses mentally that your prospect has to say yes to in order for them to buy you or to go to the sale, or whatever the action is.

So really, I do love speaking, but I love marketing even more. That’s where I grew up, and got my chops as doing direct response marketing offline. So I think of speaking as a context. So yes, the message, the communication that we’re doing right now, that matters. However, Drew, when you send out email communication or when you post it on iTunes, and you’re thinking about the cover art, you’re putting my bio up there, you’re selling the audience on why they should come listen to this podcast.

So that’s part of the choreography. Now the message, I better deliver on the goods like [inaudible 00:16:05]. So I better deliver on the goods, and then there’s follow-up after the fact and usually, you’re probably not going to do the follow-up, but in this particular case, I would do the follow-up. So the big lesson will be choreography, what are the actions? What are the touch points that need to occur before you give that Zoom presentation?

Can you send some content ahead of time? Can you go to their LinkedIn profile and add them as a friend or a connection or Facebook and think about what are all the touch points that happened before, during and then obviously afterwards, and we’ve all heard the fortunes in the follow-up.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, yeah. Awesome. So I want to get to the five elements of the presentation, but let’s take a quick break and then we’ll come back to that. If you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, odds are, you’ve heard me mentioned the AMI Peer Networks or the Agency Owner Network. And what that is, really is that’s like a Vistage group or an EO group, only everybody around the table owns an agency in a non competitive market.

So it’s a membership model. They come together twice a year for two days, two days in the spring and two days in the fall and they work together to share best practices. They show each other their full financials. So there’s a lot of accountability. We bring speakers in, and we spend a lot of time problem solving around the issues that agency owners are facing.

If you’d like to learn more about it, go to agencymanagementinstitute.com\network. Okay, let’s get back to the show. All right. Welcome back, everybody. I am here with Dustin Mathews and we are talking about becoming a fearless presenter and how powerful presenting, again, whether that’s a webinar, whether that’s standing on a stage, whether that is delivering some sort of audio presentation, and maybe you’re not even looking at each other.

Whatever it is you guys are presenting every day and today we’re talking about how to do that bigger and better. So before the break, Dustin you had sort of teased us with, hey, remind me to tell you about the five elements. So this is your reminder. Tell us what those are.

Dustin Mathews:

Well, that’s a strategy right there in itself and I did that on purpose. So one of the things in a presentation is selling what’s coming ahead, and I didn’t do that in, let me hit you over the head and listen to all the cool stuff that I’m going to share. I just planted the seed and Drew, it’s funny, because I remember reading an article that said people actually are more excited about the thought of their vacation than actually being on vacation. So it’s that planning, it’s that prep work. So if you accept that, then you accept that you should be selling people on hey, look what’s coming.

It’s like movie trailers. So that’s an example of that, to get people excited about it. So what I’ve discovered is there’s really five elements that we all cover in a presentation. So knowledge is power. So obviously, it’s inside the book and we don’t have a ton of time to unpack it to the level of detail I would love to, but I’ll give a bullet in each segment. What do you think?

Drew McLellan:

Perfect.

Dustin Mathews:

Okay, so here it is. Get your pens ready. So in every presentation, whether, again, Zoom, webinar on the stage, virtual reality, when it comes out, whatever, there’s intro, there’s story, there is your offer, your body, and your close and I’ll go through if you didn’t capture those. So I’ll give you a bullet point to each one. So introduction. Drew, I like to look at the most powerful people in our society and sometimes, the most highly paid.

So I look at celebrities, I look at athletes, the President of the United States, whether you like him or not, the Queen of England. All of these folks before they do a performance, before they even open their mouth are all properly introduced. So if you think about it, you go watch your favorite basketball team. The arena lights go out, the lights go on, and they introduce the players.

Your favorite rock band, you go see U2, they don’t just open up and start playing. There’s all the warm up acts. The president is always properly introduced before he even makes comments. So as an agency owner, you want to be thinking about who can introduce me. So if you’re at an event and they’re there to see a certain celebrity or personality, you want that person to introduce you.

If you’re in the boardroom, or in a department meeting, and there’s somebody that carries favor in that room, you want them to introduce you and finally, as an idea, if you can be a little forward, and you are going for sales presentation, and a little bit of entertainment, have an introduction video. So nothing says something great about you better than having somebody else do it, or something, which is a video, a student, a client, somebody in the industry that carries favor. So look for that opportunity to have someone introduce you before you even open your mouth and that’s kind of along the lines of choreography.

Drew McLellan:

Awesome. Okay, what’s step two?

Dustin Mathews:

Step two is story. So you’ve got to tell a story and it doesn’t have to be that, hey, I’m Chris Farley, and I’m broke, living under the bridge down by the river in the van. It doesn’t have to be that, but it does need to be a story of transformation. Meaning, listen, your agency discovered something in the marketplace, it didn’t exist before, or a lot of business owners were struggling to implement all these new Facebook changes. So you put together the team, you happened upon something, and you started getting results, started sharing it with others, and then things started to take off.

So there needs to be a transformative story that links to the service that you provide. All right. Number three is the offer and I know we’re going rapid fire here. So number three is your offer. Now, that doesn’t mean hey, listen, I’m here to sell you something. It just means that you got to let the audience know that there’s a pain.

So your potential prospects need to understand there’s challenges in the marketplace, Facebook ad rates just went up, if you’re doing Facebook. Google’s always shifting the sandbox and everything that that’s relevant. So you have to make them aware and the best way to do that is with statistics, and mentioning the media. So if CNN is relevant, in your case, then you do it. If it’s the institute of professional ad executives, and they put out some stat about something, then you put that in there.

So you have to educate your audience. Let me make it real for you. If I were, and Drew, I’ll pick on you and I. If I were to say, men over 40 years old that are in the tech industry or that service tech companies are likely to get burnout from stress, one out of three minutes. Now, you and I are sitting here and you’re saying, oh man that just got close to home. Because if I just said, oh, you’re likely to be burnt out, it’s not relevant.

You’re not thinking, I’m not getting burnt. I love what I do and blah, blah, blah but if I say, “Now, one out of three men, and according to the chief medical association of technology people,” I’m making this outbreak, then it carries some weight and it says, oh, wow, that cuts home. So again, what I want you to do is educate your audience. Let them know what the challenges that exist in the marketplace, and then the whole reason why you’re speaking to them is to provide the solution. The solution, of course, is your agency, but before you go for the sale, I want you to talk about your process, your methodology, your why.

Drew McLellan:

Why is it important to insert that in before the ask?

Dustin Mathews:

Because you want to build value. No one wants to be sold, no one wants to have that slick car salesman experience. So in this day and age, why is important. You look at the rise of Apple, Simon Sinek, who’s a thought leader in this, the why is important. People want to get to know you. They’re looking for more, because they’ve been scammed in the past, they’ve had unfavorable results in the past.

So they want to know who you are as a person, they want to get value from you before they really start to open up. So it’s this law of exchange. It’s more so important now than ever before that we give people value so they can warm up to us, trust us and then we can go for the ask.

Drew McLellan:

So when you talk about having to present our process, what you’re really talking about is presenting … One of the things I talk to agency owners about is that agencies have to have a point of view. They have to have sort of a philosophy of how and why they do the work that they do. So is that more what you’re talking about?

Dustin Mathews:

Absolutely. It kind of rolls into body here, Drew and I love that you say point of view. What I would say on point of view is have a point of view. And if you want to go to the next level, name it something. It’s having a point of view but giving it a name. So meaning like there’s no shortage of agencies out there to compete with. So yes, you have a point of view and that’s great and that separates you, but not that it can get cloudy, you want to make it as crystal clear possible that your point of view is different and special than the next agency.

Because you train a lot of agency to do this. So how do you even separate yourself from the ones that know this methodology and process, and what I would say, Drew is that you give it a name. So it can be your agency name, it can be the Mathews’ method. It can be your technology, the way. So to really kind of point this crystal clear. Let’s say I’m a weight loss coach, and I teach people how to lose weight.

Let’s say step number one or my process or my point of view is this and there’s five steps. Drink more water, get a smaller plate, look at the fork twice before you eat it. I’m not very good at being a weight loss coach. These steps are getting worse. So four and five. So if this were my point of view, great, but Drew, you’ve heard that drink more water will help you lose more weight and you tried it and you’re like, it didn’t really work.

You got the smaller plate, but it didn’t work or whatever. So now you’re sitting there like this, meaning … My arms are cross, and you’re sitting their resistant. So what I say is what you need to do is really get them excited. So call it something, call it the Mathews’ method for weight loss, and if you really want to separate yourself, go trade mark it. Because no one can take that away from you.

So whatever your point of view is your methodology, your process, I want you to own it, and I want you to sell people not on, hey, we’re the best ad agency in town. Sell them on your process, your methodology, your point of view, to your point, and then we’ll get to the ask later about how we can solve it. So sell them that there is a system for getting the results they want to get. Make sense?

Drew McLellan:

Yep, absolutely.

Dustin Mathews:

Now, one thing. I’m really feeling the roll here, Drew. So I want to make sure people really understand this, and this comes from kids. I had a rough night last night, to be quite honest and Dexter is one of them. He’s three years old, and he’s getting to the point where he can say no. So if I tell you to do something, just-

Drew McLellan:

That doesn’t get better, by the way as they get older. I’m just warning you now.

Dustin Mathews:

Oh, man, I’m definitely in trouble. Does the sleep get better?

Drew McLellan:

Yes, absolutely does. When they’re teenagers, they sleep all the time. So you can too. You’ll catch up, then.

Dustin Mathews:

All right. I’ll sleep then. So I think now, when I tell him to do something, there’s resistance and I think of every agency or I think of every audience, I think of every prospect, I tell them to do something and I never pretend that they’re going to accept that. I always think they’re not going to accept it. So if I tell you to do some, there’s this sort of natural resistance, like kind of when mom and dad told you to do something.

So now to get the guy from crossing his arms or the girl from crossing his arms and to open up, you want to tell a case study in between each step. So when you show proof, when you demonstrate when you show screenshots, when you show what your agency has done or what you’ve done with clients, now people are like, “I really didn’t think hat we can use Facebook to grow our business, but I’ve seen six case studies about it from this presenter. Maybe there is a way.” So think about that. You always want to have social proof, case studies to show that in between each one of your steps.

Drew McLellan:

Okay.

Dustin Mathews:

So now the big clothes. So if you do this right, and you’re in front of the right audience and I’ve sort of been doing this a little bit, because this is podcasting. I want to demonstrate. Drew, I’ve been asking you questions like, did that make sense and other yes questions. If you get agreement throughout, instead of vomiting on people, I know that’s vulgar, but you check in. Say, does that make sense? Did you get this? Who would be interested in implementing this? If you do that throughout, then naturally, you just simply ask, “Who here would be interested, or would you be interested of me showing you how we can help you increase bottom line growth, generate more leads online, triple conversion?”

So you want to ask questions that, naturally, people in that audience are going to say yes to. So if you’ve asked questions throughout, my fellow co author in the book, Dan Kennedy calls this sequential agreement. It’s kind of like choreography. So if you choreograph it and they say yes, yes, yes, yes, all the way throughout, naturally, when you go for the close or the ask, they’re going to say, yes. They may not say it verbally, but they’ll nod their head. So those are the core components of a persuasive presentation, no matter the media.

Drew McLellan:

Awesome. Love it. Love it. So I’m guessing that all of this leads into … So no agency owner is giving presentations just because they want to sit on a stage or they want it to be internet famous, or whatever. They are absolutely doing it because they want to sell something, or to at least position themselves to sell something down the road.

Dustin Mathews:

Yes.

Drew McLellan:

So how does that get into the whole idea of the Irresistible Offer Architecture, which you brilliantly named, to prove your point. How does that tie into that and how does an agency owner … First of all, I guess, tell us more about that idea, but then how do we leverage that in the work that we do, again, whether it’s a webinar, or a seminar, or a podcast appearance, or we’re standing on a big stage.

Dustin Mathews:

Absolutely. This is a good question. The irresistible offer really comes in that last part, which is the close. So I’ve identified nine elements and Drew, you’re the first person so astutely to point that out without me cuing you or saying it meaning that I just demonstrated what I said, meaning I created Irresistible Offer Architecture. There’s no shortage of people talking about irresistible offers, but there’s only one guy talking about Irresistible Offer Architecture, and I own that and it’s registered and trademarked.

So very good on that point, demonstration there. So I’ve identified nine different elements. So the biggest thing I can share with agency owner specifically is when you make an offer and a lot of times what I’ve seen other agency owners do is they’ll do some sort of consultation, or strategy session or discovery session or some sort of ad review account review. Oftentimes, they’ll just lead with that and I always say an irresistible offer has three or four, maybe more components that make it hard for people to say no to.

So let me give you an example. Sports Illustrated is the most classic example. Here, they have this magazine and yes, guys that were into sports and girls that were into sports, women that were in the sports would buy it. However, when they introduced the football phone, people really still didn’t care about the magazine, but they wanted the phone or the yearbook, or the sweater, or whatever it was.

So they stopped selling just the magazine, and they sold the magazine with the football phone. So now, no to this magazine, and yes to the football phone. So at the end of the day, as a marketer, I want to get a response and I want to get customers on board and I’m going to allow them once they come on, and so they’ll buy it more.

So what I say is, even if you’re doing a discovery session, or you’re doing something, give value, give the bonuses. So as an example, a concrete example, yes, do the Add Account review, do the audit, but in addition, give them a copy of your book. If you want to be a thought leader, or you have a book or a white paper, if you don’t have the book, give them a video of the new whiz bang technology or the new strategy that your firm just discovered.

Show the results and then give them one other thing, because they may say, “Drew, I know what you’re doing. You’re giving me this free consult so I’ll sit down with you and you will hit me over the head with the hammer and you’ll make me sign with your agency.” So they know that going in, they know the game. So I don’t want them focused on that.

Yes, I want them to know that and think about that because yes, I am trying to make a sale, but I also want to incentivize them with other things and say, “Listen, even if you don’t do business with my firm, I want to give you awareness, I want to give you value,” and that just endears them even more to want to do business. So when you make your offer, whether you sell an info course, you sell agency services, never lead with one thing.

Have multiple things of value that you can give away for free and if you can do something physical, I’m a big fan of that. Because tangible is so valuable, especially if your customers skew a little older.

Drew McLellan:

So give us an example of a tangible thing that you thought was really effective, particularly in the B2B world, where I think it’s easier when you go to Sports Illustrated football phone, which I had forgotten that they had even done that. So give us a B2B example.

Dustin Mathews:

Couple things. So if you have a book, and I realize not everyone listening in is going to have a book, but giving away a book is my way of doing it. I’m not going to sit here and say, “Hey, listen, I’m a published author, best selling this”. I’m not a braggadocios guy but I will say, “Listen, when you sign up with me today or for those of you that are interested in having a copy of my book, go back to the booth and see it.”

So I would give something, physical book and I love that because it sells me as the expert without me being so direct. It’s an indirect sale and that’s my favorite. The second thing is a flash drive, even though these are becoming passe nowadays, because even my MacBook Pro here, I have to put a dongle into it to even get right, but I still leverage it.

I think a lot of people make the mistake of passing it off too quickly. So when I go to an event, I will say, “Listen, I brought 27 of these things,” or however many I have. “For those of you that want it, go back or take out your phone and whatever and show me and I’ll give you one.”

On the flash drive, is a video, is this, is this. So that’s an example of something physical or something tangible that can work. Then also too, if you have something cool, and you have to forgive me, I don’t have anything super cool coming to my mind right now, but even the football phone. So if you have a promotional item, a mug that says, “Ad agency owners rule,” even that stuff will drive the sale, [inaudible 00:33:52] drive at least the action you want them to take. So that’s an example of something physical.

Drew McLellan:

One of the things that a lot of agencies are doing right now. And I think this is one of those things that whatever’s cool today. So if you’re listening to this in 2022, this is old news, but if you’re listening to it in real time, are the sleeves that you slap on the back of your phone, so you can stick business cards or credit cards in. I’ve seen a lot of agencies … So again, you’re right. It’s a promotional item, it doesn’t cost very much money, but all of a sudden, everybody wants to have a sleeve on the back of their phone so they can tuck a credit card or their ID or whatever into the … So your right, it doesn’t have to cost a million dollars and it can just be small but valuable.

Dustin Mathews:

What’s interesting Drew, you just inspired into me exactly along those lines. It doesn’t even have to be for you, Drew. So maybe you want that credit card sleeve on the back of your phone, but what about this? We have a sponsor recently come in and they gave out those fidget spinners that all the kids are playing with. So I could care less about this thing. I said, it look cool, but I’ll get bored in two seconds, but then I’m like, oh, the kids.

I’m like, I got to go there to get one. Not for me, for the kids and I’ll go entertain the conversation. So it doesn’t even have to be for you in that [inaudible 00:35:03]. So we know as agency owners, business owners, we just want to get people in front of us. Obviously the right people, but people that are willing to have a conversation with us to take them to the next level, and I think about that.

Drew McLellan:

So let’s get back to this idea of the Irresistible Offer Architecture. So, I should bake in multiple sort of gifts or gives when I’m sitting down. What else do I need to be thinking about to build out an opportunity to make that big sale?

Dustin Mathews:

Absolutely. So a couple things that come to mind. So I think of a guarantee. So people know that they’re going to come sit down with you and invest time and time is something that we can’t get back ever. So the only thing you can do is give them a guarantee, even if it’s free. Like if you give away just to get a conversation, you could say, listen, at the end of my conversation with you, or at the end of the audit, or whatever it is you’re doing, if I haven’t provided value, or given you awareness, I’m going to pay for your steak dinner, and you give them a $50 gift certificate to Carrabba’s or Outback or whatever.

So you could do a guarantee to safeguard against wasting someone’s time because that is an objection, and since we’re speaking of objections, you should be thinking about what are all the objections someone would have in your marketplace, or your prospect and what are the elements in the offer that overcome them? So time. Everyone, time, time, time, this time, that.

So is there a component that you can put into your offer that helps them overcome time? What would an example be? Just off the cuff, a time management course. Now someone [inaudible 00:36:36] go through your time management course, maybe, maybe not, but at least you can say, “Listen, for those of you that are really struggling with time, this is important to your business. So for that reason, I’ve included time management book, or course, so that you can get through this information or so that you can get two hours of your life back every week or something.” That would be a real crass example, but think about what the objections are, and what are components in your irresistible offer that overcome that objection.

Drew McLellan:

Awesome. So one of the things that you talk about is the idea of reverse engineering, which I think is exactly what you’re just talking about is anticipate what’s going to come and then bake in all the things that get you over those humps, right?

Dustin Mathews:

Yeah, absolutely. In a bigger context too, Drew, the context is your presentation. So when I started writing presentations, after I started saying I’m going to do these, after I got over that fear, I started with the title slide. You open up a PowerPoint or a Keynote, whatever your fancy is, and you’re starting on the title slide. So what I challenge people to do now is say, “Listen, let’s start backwards. Let’s start with the end. What do you want your audience to do?”

Again, it’s not always get a sale, but is it driving appointment opt in? I think about let’s create that offer first and then let’s reverse engineer the whole presentation. So if you’re struggling and not understanding what story should I tell or what’s important, you just ask yourself does this for the sale? What I mean by sale is the action.

So if you’re generating leads, and you’re telling some story about your childhood, yes, it could be relevant, but oftentimes, it might not be relevant to driving the sales. So get rid of it.

Drew McLellan:

Great. So what’s your take on some of the conventional … So I think sometimes, people who are not comfortable presenting, again, small setting, big setting, fall back on the age old wisdom of things like, start with a joke, and all of that sort of stuff. What’s your take on that? I don’t see it work very often.

Dustin Mathews:

It’s tough. They say a strategy known is a strategy blown. So if everyone knows to start with a joke, or someone’s teaching or something becomes popular, and everyone’s doing, it falls flat. So I do say this, though, for those that are nervous, and need to do it just to do it and get going, it’s great. It can backfire, because I want people to get off the blocks. I know there’s a lot of fear around delivering and getting out there, but after a while, you’re going to find your own voice and if you’ll practice, if you’ll get on podcast, if you’ll talk to your team, if you’ll be a content producer, and I don’t mean like you have to sit down and write and blog every day, but like be interviewed or talk to people at conferences and try out different material life is going to get a whole lot easier. So sometimes those are beneficial, and eventually I want you to find your own voice and just be you, be authentic you.

Drew McLellan:

Love it. So, we’re getting a little bit towards the end. I want to make sure that a couple of things. One, we tell people how to find you, find out more about the work that you do, access the book. So before I wrap up with my final question, tell us how to track you down.

Dustin Mathews:

You got it. Well if you enjoyed this conversation and want to go deeper on presentations, check out nobspresentations.com, and on there, you’re going to find links to Amazon and your favorite place to get them but the reason why I’m sending you there is there are resources for implementing and executing. So I know it’s one thing to buy a book and it’s another thing to execute on it. So I’ve designed some tools, videos, resources that will help you execute a lot quicker, even if you’ve got a presentation in the next week coming up. Go and check that out.

Speakingempire.com for those of you that are like, listen, reading a book is great. I just want to work with you and your team to write a presentation. If you like that and want to come down to Tampa, Florida, we’d love to have you and that’s at speakingempire.com and LinkedIn as well. Look me up on LinkedIn, Dustin Mathews. I’m active on there. One T in the last name. Otherwise, you might not find me.

Drew McLellan:

So we’ll put all those links in the show notes, guys. So if you didn’t get that, just pop into the show notes, and you all have them. Dustin, of the resources on the website, if I only have time for one, what’s the one that you think has the most impact?

Dustin Mathews:

The book. The book. Sure. The book, and the book was designed for those … This is why, Drew. The book was designed for those that are just getting started all the way to the advanced. You can benefit, and you literally can go to that section and benefit big time and for those of you that are like listen, Dustin, I’m never going to get on the stage. I get it, but you’re a Zoom like master. Great, go to the chapter on webinars and virtual presentations, and you’ll get benefit and value there. So it covers a lot of different ranges there. So think of it like an encyclopedia as well.

Drew McLellan:

I guess that’s something we should mention that the book, some of the content is broken down by sort of the stage that you may be on. So again, whether it’s a webinar or live or in a meeting, or whatever it is. So it’s helpful to see all of the good counsel in context.

Dustin Mathews:

Absolutely.

Drew McLellan:

Okay. So last question for you. Where do you think this is going next? Why now? Why is this so important now? Because I believe that it is. Even if you are the one person who owns an agency and has never had to make a presentation, which I cannot fathom how that would be, it’s coming. It’s coming like a freight train for all of us. Why is that?

Dustin Mathews:

This is a good question and it’s my soapbox alert. So there’s never been a time and I know many people open with that line, but if you look at the technology, we’ve got Periscope, which may be on the way out, we’ve got Snapchat, we’ve got Facebook Live, LinkedIn is coming out with video and then I think VR. Now we may be way off, and depending on when you listen to this, we may be closer than I thought.

So I say this, as an agency owner, a business owner, entrepreneur, whatever you call yourself, a salesperson, there’s never been a time in history where now we have the opportunity to broadcast our message and I mean, not just like email marketing, and let’s throw up a web page, but I’m talking about look at podcast and the rise of SoundCloud.

So we are under the gun as agency owners, business owners to put out a message, and a lot of people are putting out messages. It’s just it’s not leading to anything. It’s just, they may become a thought leader, maybe but agency owner, business owner, we’re trying to get clients, we’re trying to grow the business. So now more than ever, it’s just coming.

So VR is next. So you’re going to present and you’re going to speak your message in VR, and people are going to consume it. So if you think about VR, you’re on a stage. It’s going to be a hologram of you. They’re going to see you. So you can’t hide behind PowerPoint anymore. You can’t hide behind other media. It’s going to be VR, they’re going to see your face, they’re going to hear you, and they may see the environment that you’re in or around. So you got to get good at it now, because it’s only going to get better.

Drew McLellan:

You know what the other point of that is for the audience, this isn’t just about you. This is also about your clients because there’s huge opportunity in helping your clients figure out the right message to broadcast, how to broadcast it, coaching them on how to be better, helping them come up with their version of the football phone, whatever it is.

So this is not just about you, but this is also about how we’re going to help our clients sell in the future. So you have to understand this on many levels because you have to become the master at it. Not only in delivering it yourself, but in teaching other people how to do it.

Dustin Mathews:

Drew, that one nugget alone, I should have interviewed you on it. That one nugget alone was worth 10 podcasts that you’ll do and I don’t mean it that way, but I mean, it as like, listen, that one thing there is super valuable because as an agency owner, yes, at the end of the day, we’re helping clients get conversions, get leads. So anything we can impart on them, this is pass along value, big time. So that one nugget there was huge. I want them to get that.

Drew McLellan:

You’re a good man. Thank you. Dustin, thank you for your time. As I alluded to the beginning, I knew that this was going to be an information-packed conversation and that people were going to have lots of action items that came out of it and you absolutely delivered. So I’m grateful for your time and for you sharing your expertise. Thanks for being on the show.

Dustin Mathews:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I had a blast.

Drew McLellan:

You bet. All right, gang, this wraps up another episode of Build a Better Agency. I will be back next week with another guest who will help you think about your agency in a different way, I hope, and will help you stretch and push you a little bit to get even better than you are today. If you need me in the meantime, you know how to reach me. I’m [email protected] and you can always go to the website and see what else we’re up to. Until then, I will talk to you soon. Thanks.

Believe it or not, that wraps up another episode of Build a Better Agency. Man, the time goes by quick. Love sharing this content with you, and I love spending the time with you. So thanks so much for listening and sticking all the way to the very end and for those of you that did stick around to the end, I’ve got a special new twist for you.

So many of our podcast guests have books or other things that really expand upon the information and knowledge that they share with us during the podcast. So we’ve reached out to them and we’ve asked them if they would like to give away some of their books or whatever classes, whatever it may be and we’re going to throw some AMI things in there as well. We’re going to have some AMI swag and we’re going to actually give away some workshops.

So all you have to do to be in all of the drawings, you only have to do this once is go to agencymanagementinstitute.com\podcastgiveaway. So again, agencymanagementinstitute.com\podcastgiveaway. Give us your email address and your mailing address, and every week you will be eligible for whatever drawing we’re doing and we’re going to change it up every week. So we’re going to have a lot of variety and we will pop an email to you, if you are the lucky winner. You can also go back to that page and see who won last week and what they won so you can see what you’re in the run for. So if you have any questions about that or anything agency related, you know you can reach me at [email protected] and I will talk to you next week. Thanks.

Dustin Mathews:

That’s all for this episode of AMI’s Built a Better Agency, brought to you by HubSpot. Be sure to visit agencymanagementinstitute.com to learn more about our workshops, online courses, and other ways we serve small to mid-sized agencies. Don’t miss an episode as we help you build the agency you’ve always dreamed of owning.