Subconscious barriers to your agency’s success with Amira Alvarez

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Agency Management Institute Community, where you’ll learn how to grow and scale your business, attract and retain the best talent, make more money and keep more of what you make. The Build a Better Agency Podcast presented by White Label IQ is packed with insights on how small to midsized agencies survive and thrive in today’s market. Bringing his 25 plus years of experience as both an agency owner and agency consultant, please welcome your host, Drew McLellan.

Drew McLellan:

Hey everybody, Drew McLellan here from Agency Management Institute. Welcome to another episode of Build a Better Agency. This is going to be an unusual episode. I don’t know if you can hear in my voice, I am both excited and a little nervous about what’s about to happen, and I’ll tell you why in a minute. But first I want to make sure you know about a special offer that we’ve got.

So, as many of you know or you’ve heard me talk about, Stephen Woessner and I co-wrote a book called Sell with Authority that came out, was published in January. We were just getting ready to do a big book launch in March, when COVID hit, and so we really haven’t talked about the book that much, but I’m going to certainly remedy that in the next few months. But in the meantime, here’s an offer we have for you. So the book is written just for agency folks. It’s very agency centric, it’s really the only world that I know, so it’s the one place that I can actually speak from authority.

So, the premise of the book is that how agencies earn clients has changed and that selling from an authority position or a subject matter expert position is really the most effective way, the most cost-effective, the most time-effective way for agencies to grow their book of business. I am pleased and proud to say we’ve gotten some rave reviews and folks seem to find it super helpful. So, here’s the offer. We are going to give away some seats to the Build a Better Agency Summit, and here’s how you can get in the drawing for one of these free seats. You need to do three things. You need to buy a copy of the book. Go to Amazon and buy the book. You need to leave a review of the book and you need to send me a screenshot of your review. So, buy the book, review the book, screenshot of the review to [email protected] and right after Labor Day we will draw a name out of the hats, a couple names out of the hat, and give away some free seats.

I will tell you honestly because I’ve been so busy thinking about COVID, I have not been talking about this very much, and so there aren’t a lot of names in the drawing right now, so your odds are really, really good. I am going to start talking about it more, so be that as it may, but would love for you to have access to the book, would love for you to leave us a review, and would certainly love to give you a free ticket to the event if you are so lucky to have your name drawn.

So with that, let me tell you about today’s episode. So Amira Alvarez is the founder and CEO of a company called The Unstoppable Woman. Basically what that company is it’s a global coaching company that helps entrepreneurs, creatives, rising stars in all fields sort of achieve their dreams and goals in record time. While Amira mostly works with women she also works with men. But basically she tells her own story, which I will ask her about when I introduce her, but how she went from making about 135K a year, when she really got clear about her goals and she sort of moved some of the boundaries that were in her way immediately moved to a 700,000 and then a seven figure income, which she has sustained since then.

So basically she is a high performance coach. So when she reached out to be on the podcast I said, “Well, let’s have a phone conversation so I can see if this makes senses for my audience.” So we’re chatting on the phone and we’ve been talking, I don’t know, 20 minutes or so and I liked her. I think she has a lot to teach us. So I was like, “Great, let’s have you be on the show.” And she said, “Well, I want to ask you to consider something.” And I said, “Okay.” And she said, “Normally when I go on podcasts it’s a typical interview where you ask me questions about the methodology and I try and teach people how to do it.” She said, “But for some reason I’m inclined to ask you what I’ve not asked anyone else, which is would you instead of interviewing me, would you allow me to demonstrate to your audience how I work by taking you through some of my exercises?” And there was a pause on the phone, as you might imagine, and I was like, “Tell me a little more about that.”

So she was like, “You know, I think a lot of times I can help people get clarity around what they want and what’s in the way and then really help them have some breakthroughs around how they can get clear about what they want to get to and then inspire them to go after it and make it actually happen. I’d like to try doing that on your show with you.” And I said, “Okay. Yeah, I’m game. All right.” And she’s like, “You know, this would require you to be a little vulnerable. You’re not going to be able to censor yourself.” And what I said to her, and I will say this to you because if you never hear me say this, then it’s what happened, if it’s really awful I can just not air the episode, right? And she said, “Sure. Yeah, absolutely. That would be your choice, but I think that we can teach your listeners a lot more about the methodology and they can kind of go along with you on this journey, and while I’m asking you these questions they can be answering them for themselves and sort of see how it works, and maybe we can help a lot of people kind of have some breakthroughs in this interview.”

So, that’s what we’re about to do. Honestly, she didn’t ask me about my goals, she didn’t send me any questions. So she and I have known each other now for 25 minutes, and we are about to do this in essence live in front of you. I have no idea what’s about to come. So if you never hear this episode, it didn’t go well. If you’re hearing this episode, then I think that it was of value for you and that I think you can get a lot out of it and I didn’t humiliate myself in the process. So without further ado, let’s see what happens.

All right. Amira, welcome to the podcast. This is going to be an interesting episode, I have no doubt. Before we get started, will you tell everybody a little bit about your background and give them a little setup? As you know, I’ve already done a little bit of it, but a little setup of exactly what we’re going to be doing today.

Amira Alvarez:

Absolutely. This is going to be super fun. First of all, I want to say thank you for agreeing to do this very nonconventional podcast episode. I’m excited to go through this process with you, which I will explain in detail in a moment.

Drew McLellan:

Great.

Amira Alvarez:

First, let me just tell you a little bit about me. So I am fundamentally a success coach. I help people achieve next level goals, big level goals for high achievers, people who are really going for more in their life. How do they get to the next level and break through the places where they’re sort of stalling out or plateauing? I personally have done that in my business, going from the low six figures, 138 to hitting 700K in one year, crossing seven figures, really doing some exponential kind of growth in a short period of time, and I share those numbers not to say I’m all that and more, but to really contextualize the impact of the kind of work that we’re going to be doing today, that when you really fundamentally change how you look at the world, you can make huge breakthroughs very quickly, whether that’s financial breakthroughs if you’re in business for yourself, which I work with a lot of people in business, or you’re an athlete, or an artist, or a actor, or whatever the place that you’re really going for. I mean, I care about you, but I don’t actually care what the context is, it’s that you’re really going for more. Does that part make sense?

Drew McLellan:

Yep, yep.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay, great. So then to contextualize today’s conversation that we’re having, because really it’s a conversation first and foremost. You and I had this great get to know you chat, talking about what I could share with your audience, and I just thought, I got this hit that you would be game for it. What if I just took you through some of the coaching that I do with a client and help you see some of the places that you’re stopping and how to break through? And we’ll see how far we get in this time period.

Drew McLellan:

Yep.

Amira Alvarez:

But fundamentally my brand is The Unstoppable Woman, it works for men too, right? And the idea is where are you actually stopping and how do we help you get through that at the next level? So that’s our goal today, to help you have a breakthrough, if you will.

Drew McLellan:

Awesome. As we’re going in sort of the teaching mode, so on the one hand you’re demonstrating. By the way, as I said in the intro, we have not talked about this. We haven’t set this up. I have no idea what’s about to happen. So this really is people watching how you work. But will you also on occasion sort of park the car to the side of the road and explain what you just did and how people can do it for themselves as well?

Amira Alvarez:

I’ll do my best at that, absolutely.

Drew McLellan:

Okay, okay.

Amira Alvarez:

I want to be sensitive to flow because how you will be impacted in the trajectory of our work sort of depends on that flow. But if I can find some places to pause and do a little witnessing, this is what just happened-

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, great.

Amira Alvarez:

I’m happy to do that.

Drew McLellan:

Okay. All right. I am laying down on the proverbial couch. Let’s go.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay, great. So the first thing I need to know is what do you really want? And to contextualize this question, I am not looking for the incremental this is what I really want in my business, nice to have kind of thing. I’m looking for that thing where you’re almost scared to say what it is.

Drew McLellan:

Okay. I want to be the most sought after and respected expert and coach for small to midsized agencies in the world.

Amira Alvarez:

Love it. Now, that is totally freaking palpable to me. When I hear it in my body what I’m looking for, here’s a little witnessing as the me in this conversation, I am looking for truth in what the person says. There’s resonance when there’s truth. You can actually feel it. You can hone the skill, you can actually feel it in your body when someone is fully in their truth, owning their stuff, or whether they’re kind of hedging. Most people tend to answer that question safely, at least initially, and say the practical, reasonable, what they think they can achieve thing. I set this up well with you and you went for it.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, okay.

Amira Alvarez:

So you want to be the most sought after small to midsize coach for small to midsized agencies in the world.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah. Sought after and respected.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay.

Drew McLellan:

I want to make sure that what I’m doing is good, right? I don’t want to just be popular, I want to be good at what I do.

Amira Alvarez:

Are you good at what you do now?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. Are you really good at what you do now?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, I am. But my challenge is the scope, right? I want to help more of the people that I can wrap my hands around and help, I am good at it. There’s lots of evidence in how their businesses grow, but more evidence in the relationship we have, and I want to do that for more people, but I can’t figure out how to do it for more people because of how I do it because it’s so personal for me.

Amira Alvarez:

Got it.

Drew McLellan:

So when I hang up with a client a lot of times they’ll say, “Love you, man.” I want that kind of relationship and I don’t know how to do that with the whole world.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So what makes you think you can’t do that with the whole world?

Drew McLellan:

I don’t know how to spread myself that thin.

Amira Alvarez:

Why would you need to do that?

Drew McLellan:

Because I’m literally talking to these people on the phone and by text, and through Marco Polo videos and whatever seven days a week, and there’s only 24 hours in a day.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So I have places I want to go with you on that, but we’re going to place hold that and do a little witnessing. Okay. So Drew has a limiting belief here. He thinks that there is one way to impact people profoundly, okay? And it is, if I’m hearing you correctly, it’s giving lots of time, giving lots of attention, giving lots of energy one-on-one with people. That’s not not valuable, but it’s certainly not the only way to make a big impact, and even an intimate impact, with people, okay? And yet your worldview says that’s the only way. So we call this in the biz a blind spot.

Drew McLellan:

Okay.

Amira Alvarez:

I’m pretty sure you’re kind of nodding your head, like I kind of believe her but I don’t actually see how that works or where that is.

Drew McLellan:

Well, I do in some ways. For example, I will be speaking at a conference and someone will walk up to me who I’ve never met before but who has been listening to the podcast for a year. They will walk up and it’s funny, they go to hug me or touch me and then they kind of stop because all of a sudden it occurs to them that we actually don’t know each other. So I do know that I can through sort of a broadcast medium like this podcast, I can be impactful. I get emails from people saying that the work that we do is helpful and all of that, it’s just at a different intimacy level, right?

Amira Alvarez:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). So there is some kind of belief for you that says to be impactful requires intimacy.

Drew McLellan:

Yes.

Amira Alvarez:

So now we have to find out if what you desire is intimacy or if what you desire is impact.

Drew McLellan:

Okay.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. Do you have a hit on that?

Drew McLellan:

I think one of the ways AMI is different than other people in the field is I know that my clients know deep in their heart that I actually care, and I will check in on them, and I’m worried about them, and I think about them. So I think that allows them to trust what we say and what we teach because we demonstrate a genuine affection and caring for them in their business and them as a human being, and I don’t know how to do that. Maybe I can do that without sort of that level of intimacy, I just don’t know how.

Amira Alvarez:

Where did you learn that that meant impact, that caring meant impact?

Drew McLellan:

Probably my mom. I mean, my mom was super caring. My mom was one of those people who I would walk in from school and one of my friends would be at the kitchen table, and I would walk in thinking they were there to see me and they were really there talking to my mom. They would both look at me like, “Are you going to leave the room now.” Right? So I learned very much. I watched my mom’s impact on other people and it all came from the heart, so that’s how I’m wired.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So if you were able to be the most sought after and respected coach for small and midsize agencies around the world in a way that made by definition, your definition of respected requires a level of impact and caring. Okay. If you were able to achieve that, what would that mean to you?

Drew McLellan:

It would mean that my work and my efforts had meaning. It would be certainly a part of my legacy, my professional legacy. It would mean that in an industry where a lot of agency owners are kind of alone, they’re sort of a lighthouse keeper, right? They can’t talk about their stuff because it’s money, and it’s yucky, and there’s no one to talk about it because they don’t understand the world. So honestly at the end of the day what it means is they know they’re not in it alone. They know that I and my company have their back and that they always have some place to go so they don’t have to figure it out by themselves.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So the meaning is what to you? To help people not feel alone?

Drew McLellan:

I think that’s part of it. I mean, honestly, at the end of the day it’s to help them run their business better so it’s successful in the way that they define success. I think one of the ways to do that is through collaboration and shared learning, and connection. So it’s not just the touchy feely so they don’t feel alone, it is so that they can achieve what they want to achieve. I think a lot of times I’m telling them to do things they don’t want to do, right?

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah.

Drew McLellan:

Are hard, are scary, and so they have to trust that the reason I’m telling them to do it is because I actually, A, know what I’m talking about, but B, care enough about them that I’m not going to steer them down the wrong path. So all of that says to me they have to trust me and know that I care about them and care about me in return for them to be willing to take those leaps that they have to take to build their business the way it should be built.

Amira Alvarez:

That’s meaning for you. What we’re trying to get at here is why does it matter, okay? Not the thing that you do. I get what you do. You do something amazing and it’s different than the way other business leaders do it, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah. Why does it matter?

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah.

Drew McLellan:

It matters because that means I matter, right?

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah. What gets to happen for you if you know that?

Drew McLellan:

It’s a little like being a dad, which I am. Even though some of these people are older than me, younger than me, my age, it doesn’t matter, there’s great pride in watching them do what they’re meant to do and the success. So I’m proud of them, I’m excited for them. So it fills me up to know that they are doing better, taking care of their family, taking care of their team. They’re less stressed and I get to help them do all of that. How awesome is that, right? I mean, it’s an incredible privilege to do work that you love for people that you love. At the end of the day that’s why I do what I do, because that is awesome.

Amira Alvarez:

Love it. Okay. So you do that already, correct?

Drew McLellan:

Yes. Every day I get to do it.

Amira Alvarez:

Right, okay. So, not to be too pat about it, but you’ve checked that box already.

Drew McLellan:

I know, but I want to do it for more people.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. Why does that matter to you?

Drew McLellan:

Because I know there are agencies out there, agency owners out there who either don’t know about us, haven’t tapped into our stuff and are floundering around feeling … A lot of times when somebody comes to a workshop or somehow we connect they’ll say, “Oh my god, I wish I had met you a decade ago.” Right? And so I want to meet all of them a decade ago and take away all of what they’ve endured. I know how hard it is. I also own an agency, so I know how hard it is. So if I can make it easier and better for them, why wouldn’t I want to do that for more people, right? I mean, I-

Amira Alvarez:

Well, it’s not why wouldn’t you, that’s not the right question, but you got to get really clear here, Drew. You got something good going on, you’re checking the box on doing it the right way for you, right? You’ve got the intimacy, you’ve got the connection, but you got to get really clear here about first, I want to know … Let me take a step back and then we’ll continue this line of-

Drew McLellan:

Okay, all right.

Amira Alvarez:

… questioning. You said to be the most sought after and respect coach for small and midsized agencies in the world. How would you know that? How would you define it, right? So here I’m looking for a metric. I want to be in 100 countries, I want to be working with 10,000 agencies, or 100,000 agencies. How would you know that you hit that awesome goal?

Drew McLellan:

I don’t know the answer to that. I would have to think about a finite metric, but all too often people say, “I had no idea you were out there. I wish I had known you were there.” So I guess for me it would be nobody says that anymore, everybody knows that we’re out here and we can be helpful. If they want to tap in, great, if they don’t, that’s okay too, but at least they know the resource is here.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. Great. So if we were working together we would get crystal clear there, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Okay, okay.

Amira Alvarez:

That would be a place. So a note to self, right? And to your listeners. When you’re going after a big-ass goal, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

You got to know what it is. When I was going for my big ass-goal as a solo entrepreneur it was a million dollars. I had a number. It was numbers are clear.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, okay.

Amira Alvarez:

Because you know where you are. Let’s say you’re running a marathon, you know I need to run seven miles today for my training. You know if you’ve achieved that or you haven’t achieved it. One of the things that really stops people from getting to this softer side, right? Which is the most sought after and respected, right?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

Helping all these people, what stops them from getting there is not knowing where there is, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Okay, yep.

Amira Alvarez:

And the classic example of this, Drew, is you can’t set a course anywhere without setting the GPS in your car. You need to know where you’re going.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, makes sense. Yep.

Amira Alvarez:

And you probably do this all the time with your clients in-

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Amira Alvarez:

Right? Preaching to the converted. But for this kind of big-ass stretch, juicy goal you need that to be like this is what I’m doing, this is where I’m going, this is how I know I’ve made it, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Okay, okay.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay?

Drew McLellan:

All right.

Amira Alvarez:

Then we would also want to pick a timeframe, okay? Because another place where people get off track, if you will, or kind of never achieve that big thing, is they don’t put a timeframe on it. So it’s next year, in the future, in the next 10 years, 20 years. There’s no urgency behind the development. There’s a desire there, there’s a want. You meet these people at the events and the conferences and you feel that pull, but it’s not a clear enough framework of when, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

So do you know, do you have a hit when you want to get this done by?

Drew McLellan:

No, but I’m not 20, so I want to do it quickly, right? I mean, because I want to be able to be in that place for a while. So I assume it doesn’t matter how realistic I think it is, right?

Amira Alvarez:

Mm-mm (negative).

Drew McLellan:

Okay. So let’s say two years.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

I will just share with you the number that popped into my head was three, so we’re in the same ballpark there, okay? But you use your number because you’re [inaudible 00:26:42] it on me. So, two years.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

I love that. That’s sexy, that’s hot. Doesn’t that create a little bit more juice behind it?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, and more pressure too, sure.

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah. How are diamonds created? Through a whole heck of a lot of pressure, right?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

And we create greatness through putting a little bit of pressure on ourselves and asking more of ourselves and saying, “Actually, I want to step into my greatness.” And this is clearly your greatness, Drew, okay? This is what you’re meant to do, okay? But people are meant to do a lot of things and don’t do them because they haven’t created the container, the pressure, the drive, the reason to do it, okay?

So circling back to the reason to do it. Now we have a clearer goal. Everyone in the industry knows your name, who you are, in the next two years. Okay, so you guys can’t see him, but his whole face just lit up and the smiling glow just came across his face. Okay, the energy just shifted entirely, it’s like … Yay, okay. How would that feel?

Drew McLellan:

It would feel awesome. It would feel daunting. It would feel …

Amira Alvarez:

Achieving it would feel daunting or the having done it feels daunting?

Drew McLellan:

Well, and the weight of it, right?

Amira Alvarez:

Oh okay.

Drew McLellan:

If you’re that, boy, you better bring your A game every day, right? I’m not opposed to daunting, but yeah, it would be amazing to be able to be that helpful to that many people. How awesome would that be, right? Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

And you can feel it in your body, yeah?

Drew McLellan:

Yes. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

That’s what I’m looking for. So the little witness explanation here. I continue to question Drew. He didn’t get to that level of awesomeness, that feeling in his body of having kind of actually having achieved it and feeling it already until this last part of the conversation. Would you agree with that, Drew?

Drew McLellan:

Yes, yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. Yeah. You were kind of like, “That would be great.” It was an intellectual understanding of the goal versus a kinesthetic feeling in your body.

Drew McLellan:

Well, and part of it honestly is it feels boastful. So part of I think my being less enthusiastic about it is I don’t know how to express it without it sounding boastful to myself, and I don’t mean it that way. I really just want to help that many people, but it sounds arrogant. So that’s part of I think what you’re seeing and feeling, is me going, this sounds like you think you’re hot stuff, right?

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah, and you had that initially, but then when you stepped into it and you’re like, “Two years, I could do this.” Right?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So talk to me, the next place. So now we know where you want to go, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

I don’t want to go down this lane exactly right now, but just so you have a framework if I were to take this further with you I would want to know where you are now. We would map up the whole plan between here and there, right? Because there needs to be a strategy for that, okay? But for today’s conversation the next thing that we have to dig into is where you stop, okay? And let’s start with that humble, that it sounds boastful. So, can you see how that might … So I’m not advocating here for arrogance, okay? But can you tell me if that’s a pattern for you not putting yourself out there in as big a way? Like I don’t want to seem boastful.

Drew McLellan:

I’m not afraid to step out there, but I am much more comfortable letting people figure out how good we are as opposed to telling them how good we are. Does that make sense?

Amira Alvarez:

Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Drew McLellan:

I would rather have them just go, “Oh, everything he says and does has been useful and helpful, therefore I guess he does know his stuff and he is helpful.” Than for me to like … I would never have the intro to this podcast be Drew McLellan knows more about agencies than anyone else, and isn’t he the smartest guy in the world about … I couldn’t do that, right? I mean, I just … Yeah, no.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So there is an aspect of you that works really well. It works really well the sort of I’m going to show not tell.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. Can you recognize how it was stopping you from claiming this goal initially?

Drew McLellan:

I don’t believe I can’t help the world. I do believe, I absolutely believe that I and the company behind me can help small to midsized agencies better than anybody else. I really do believe that. What stops me from claiming the goal is I don’t know how. I know how I do it now, and I can’t figure out how to scale it in a way that I don’t disappoint somebody by not helping them as much as I should, or being as responsive, or answering their email quickly enough or whatever it is, right? For me it’s a scale issue, not an ability issue. Does that make sense?

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah. So if you were coaching one of your clients about scaling, what would you tell them?

Drew McLellan:

Well, it’s interesting because I thought about the scaling issue a lot, and the natural way to scale would be to have more Drews, right? So that I’m not the only person on the planet who knows what I know. Other agency owners who I work with know that and they could be Drew two, Drew three, Drew four, but obviously not that, but you know what I mean? But I also think about what I love about the work that I do. So the part of it, yes, I like getting paid and all that, but the renumeration that I actually love the most is the gratification of these relationships.

Amira Alvarez:

Are you afraid that if you hire beautifully well trained under you agency owners that can help other people with your methodology that you would lose the connection with your people?

Drew McLellan:

Well, so, I have. We do have folks that do that, and they have connections with people that I’ve never met, right?

Amira Alvarez:

Okay.

Drew McLellan:

I have no doubt that … So, Craig is the guy that comes to mind. I have no doubt that Craig serves those agencies well and treats them exactly in his own version of how I would treat them. So it’s not that I think they’re getting anything less if they don’t have a relationship with me, right?

Amira Alvarez:

I understand.

Drew McLellan:

But there is part of the intimacy of it. I look at somebody like, and I’m not comparing myself to Tony Robbins, but I look at somebody like a Tony Robbins and say, “If I don’t have $3 million I’m never actually going to get to talk to Tony Robbins.” Right? I would hate for someone to say, “You know what? If we work with AMI we’re going to work with somebody in a phone bank system somewhere else and there’s no way we’re talking to Drew McLellan unless we have a million dollars.” I don’t ever want somebody to feel like I’m that untouchable, or unreachable, or that it would cost that much money to have a conversation with me, right?

Amira Alvarez:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). So what’s interesting about this, Drew, is that if you were in the room with an agency owner, you would be able to strategically figure out this problem, right? My brain is like, “Okay, it’s like this.” Okay? But there is some block here for you. Do you know what that is?

Drew McLellan:

No, but let’s … This is like a cliffhanger moment. Let’s pause for a second, take a break and we’ll come back, and we will figure out what’s broken in my brain. All right, we’ll be right back, guys.

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All right, we are back, and if you have been with us all along you’re participating in this session with us. Right before the break we were talking about there’s some sort of a block in my brain that I suspect Amira knows what it is and is going to lead me by the nose right to it. So no, I don’t know what it is, but I would love it if you would help me see it.

Amira Alvarez:

Well, I’m going to ask more questions because it’s one thing for me to say, “It’s this, Drew.” But it’s another thing for you to come to it yourself through inquiry because then you own it. So, that’s a little bit of the witnessing perspective here. Sometimes I’m very directive as a coach and mentor, and other times I want to help people get there themselves.

Drew McLellan:

Okay.

Amira Alvarez:

So what I’m hearing you say is I want to make an impact to hundreds of thousands, millions of people, I don’t know how big the industry is, but it’s a huge impact.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Amira Alvarez:

You know that you could not possibly service one-on-one all those people. You’re not doing that right now, right? So you couldn’t possibly … Intellectually you get-

Drew McLellan:

I totally do.

Amira Alvarez:

Strategically you get that.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Amira Alvarez:

And yet there’s something in how you were describing, like I never want to be … And how would you describe that, so exclusive, so off-limits, so better than thou? What is the word there?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah. If somebody wants my help I want to be accessible. I know I can’t give it away for free. I mean, I understand that, right? This is what I do for a living. It’s how I pay my mortgage, and feed the dog, pay for my daughter’s wedding, but I don’t want to be so expensive that people can’t access what they need. So I don’t want to be so exclusive that only rich people can get it, because quite honestly-

Amira Alvarez:

Let’s pause here for a second. I’m just going to blow this out of the water here.

Drew McLellan:

Great, great.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So let me just take it out of Drew’s world, put it over here in Amira’s world.

Drew McLellan:

Okay.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay? A podcast reaches lots of people. I do events, reach lots of people, okay? I have programs, reach lots of people. Not exclusive, I’m showing up in all of those programs, okay? You have all of this too, Drew. There are so many ways that people have touchpoints with you. There are so many ways that they can access the amazingness of Drew. So what’s stopping you from scaling that?

Drew McLellan:

From scaling the podcast you mean? Like things that serve many people at once?

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah. I don’t know that anything is. I mean, we have on-demand courses, we have workshops where 50 or under people can come at once. We have the podcast that’s downloaded in 150 some countries. So I’m not sure that I think we have stopped that. So maybe for me it’s about … Maybe what I’m wrestling with is the one-on-one connection that I can’t possibly give every agency owner on the planet.

Amira Alvarez:

And you don’t right now.

Drew McLellan:

Right. I kind of want to though.

Amira Alvarez:

Because you think that that’s where your value comes from. That’s what mom showed you.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah. I think part of it is …

Amira Alvarez:

Let’s stop there, stop there for just a second and just let that sit for a moment. Mom said value was one-on-one kitchen table conversations, okay? That’s how you show love, that’s how you respect people, that’s how you show value, okay? And yet you cannot possibly scale one-on-one to the world, and yet that’s your definition of impact. If you think that being able to change someone’s life requires a one-on-one kitchen table conversation, you won’t do the things that are going to reach the majority of the people out there, okay?

Drew McLellan:

So, for me the intimacy of the kitchen table conversation is insight and wisdom overlaid with heart, right? So I get how I can scale the insight and wisdom part. I do that on the podcast, I do that other places. Maybe what I don’t know how to do as well or can’t figure out if I am or how I can. If somebody’s listening to this podcast right now and I’ve never met them, I want them to know I actually give a damn about them, and about their business, and about how they’re feeding their family, and how they’re treating their employees, and the fact that they can sleep at night because they don’t have a gorilla client that’s stressing them out. I want them to know that I actually care.

Amira Alvarez:

And do you do that through the podcast?

Drew McLellan:

I don’t know.

Amira Alvarez:

But you do know.

Drew McLellan:

I hope I do. I mean, I certainly try. I hope that-

Amira Alvarez:

Let me ask you a different question.

Drew McLellan:

Okay.

Amira Alvarez:

When someone comes up to you at the event and wants to put their arms around you because they’ve been listening to your podcast, do you think that you’ve communicated that you care?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, I guess I have.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So you’re doing this already.

Drew McLellan:

So I just need to do it bigger.

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah. And what stops you … Let’s go a little deeper here. Can we continue?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, absolutely.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So I think the challenge is, although intellectually you just had a little light bulb moment and you realized it took a little kind of back and forth but you realized you actually are already doing this at scale, okay? Which is really powerful. I think that’s a powerful statement, okay? Because one of the beliefs that you are struggling with, and let me do a little intellectual framing here of how this works, okay? I’ll finish this sentence and then I’ll do the intellectual framing. One of the beliefs that you’re struggling with is I can’t show people I care aside from the kitchen table, right? The one-on-one, okay? And therefore it’s dangerous, not safe, and I’ll explain what that means, to grow and scale because I can’t possibly be at the kitchen table with everyone, okay? Now, let me talk about the unsafe and scary bit. So this is a … And feel free to ask me more questions about this. Let me know how much detail you want, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Yep, yep.

Amira Alvarez:

So when we are children, and people have different age timeframes, under seven, nine, 12 years old, our conscious mind is not yet fully developed. Our conscious mind is the part of our mind that is able to accept or reject information, can say, “I agree with that, I disagree with that. I believe that, I don’t believe that. That’s right, that’s wrong.” Right? And can filter stuff. So the only thing that we have is our subconscious, which can only accept information, okay? And it accepts it from our environment, so not just our physical environment but the key people in our environment, mother, father, sister, brother, if you’re raised by foster parents or grandparents, whoever the primary people in your life were. They created the framework for how you understood the world. Much of that is fantastic. It really works, okay? It’s been serving you, it’s been good, all of that. It’s created a self-image of who you are in this world, okay?

So I am someone who cares, expresses caring by having real, solid conversations with people, right? Who helps people in this way, okay? That becomes your self-image and it’s like if you had a GPS for a rocket ship, or an airplane. The pilot sets the coordinates to that place, that coordinate, that’s your self-image, and your subconscious mind is like the auto pilot program that is keeping you, the airplane going towards New York, or LA, or wherever you’ve set it to, okay? When it goes a little bit off course the autopilot will bring it back on course, okay? If it goes a little left it’ll bring you back in course, a little right, bring you back in course. This is the same thing with your subconscious mind and your self-image, okay?

So you have a self-image, and we would need to go deeper into this, but where we’re playing right now is you have a self-image that says a good person is someone who does this, shows up in the world like this. Now, fundamentally I don’t have any problem with that self-image, right? It’s served you, it’s built a beautiful business, it’s helped a lot of people. You feel good doing it. There’s a lot of check, plus, plus, plus around it, but it’s also the shadow side of it, if you will, is it’s keeping you from actually helping more people, which is something that consciously you really want to do, but subconsciously your mind is saying, “This is who you are, and if you deviate from this, you will die.”

Okay, let me explain that little part because it’s an important piece, okay? And then I’ll turn it back over to you, okay? So your subconscious has one role, the maintenance of the individual, which means the survival of the individual. It’s very black and white. It knows that you have already survived life like this, being this way. This is survivable. Even though it’s not letting you reach that big, next level goal, that thing you really want, it’s not letting you actually help more people, okay? It’s survivable, so you won’t die. So that takes precedence, okay? Any questions on that?

Drew McLellan:

No, it makes sense.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So now how about what to do about it? You’re ready for that?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, let’s do it.

Amira Alvarez:

I’m going to pause a little bit. Your audience doesn’t have the opportunity, but we’re on a video conference and I can see your face.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Amira Alvarez:

It was like a little shift of energy there before I said, “You want to know the next steps?” What was going on there? What were you thinking?

Drew McLellan:

I was thinking I have to figure out how to translate or recognize maybe how I communicate the hard part in a setting where I’m not with one, or five, or 10 people. But how I’ve got to figure out how do I make sure I bake that in on a podcast episode or when I’m on a stage, or whatever it is. When I’m with a lot of people, or I’m recording a course or whatever, how do I translate that in a way that regardless of where somebody’s at in the world or where they’re at in their agency evolution they clearly understand that I genuinely care? I was just thinking like I’ve got to figure out how to translate that, right? I know how to communicate it. I’ve been how I am, as you said, for my whole life. So I think my family, and friends, and clients that I am in physical proximity with would say there is no question in their mind that I care about them, and I communicate that in a plethora of verbal and nonverbal ways. So I just have to figure out how do I now do that for 100 people or 10,000 people, because for me that’s got to be part of the equation.

Amira Alvarez:

Question for you.

Drew McLellan:

Okay.

Amira Alvarez:

Did we not just identify that you already do that?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah. So part of what I was sort of figuring out was it wasn’t that I have to figure out how to do it, it was that I have to figure out how to identify that I did it. Does that make sense? So then I can check yep, I did it. Yep, it’s there. Yes, you’re right. I’m recognizing that I can do it, and I do do it. I just know myself well enough to know that I’m going to want to make sure I can go back and go, “Yep, that’s baked in there. Okay.” Whatever that means, right?

Amira Alvarez:

When you do your small groups, how many people are in them?

Drew McLellan:

Like in our peer groups 25 folks or so. But understand they walk in the room and there’s hugging, and kissing, and there’s a level of intimacy and connection with those people. So there’s no doubt they know that I care about them, right? Because we have that sort of connection, yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah. So at what point did you go … Did you use to do smaller events than that?

Drew McLellan:

Well, I do, I still do one-on-ones and stuff like that, sure.

Amira Alvarez:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Did you ever do smaller events? Did you do five person events, 10 person events?

Drew McLellan:

No. It’s either usually … Well, sometimes it’s five, it’s 10 or so if it’s like an intact team of an agency, right?

Amira Alvarez:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew McLellan:

But for the most part it was either one person or this peer group size.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. So you know you can express connection, intimacy, caring one-on-one. You know you can do it in a agency, small group in an agency, eight to 10 people, and you know you can do it at 20. What makes you think you can’t do that at 50?

Drew McLellan:

I think that I can. For me, a lot of it is physical, right? So I’m half Italian, so I’m a hugger, and I also think physically just in the way you look at somebody, in your expressions and all of that. So I guess that’s what I struggle with, is on a podcast, other than I get that they can hear it in my voice, but in a podcast or when I’m physically not with someone, how do I do that, right? So, that’s the question mark in my head.

Amira Alvarez:

So that’s a place that you stop, would you say?

Drew McLellan:

Well, I think about if I’m on a stage in front of, like when I’ve spoke at Inbound, or Content Marketing World, or any place like that, if I’m on a stage or I’ve spoken in places where I’ve been speaking to 2,000 people, I think because of the way I talk about them and to them they get the sense that I care.

Amira Alvarez:

So here’s the rub, Drew. You’re going in a little bit of a circle. Can you feel that?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, right.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay. You’re like, “I do it already, but I need it to be like this. No, I do it already.” Right?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

And again. Here’s the meta. The challenge is consciously, intellectually, you know already, okay? You know what to do. You know it needs to … You could sit down, and I hope you do after this conversation and kind of flush out well, the plan needs to look like this, and this is how it works, because you already are doing it, okay? But then there’s a part of you that sneaks in there, this little thought that’s like, “I’m a hugger and I couldn’t hug 50 people.” Who says, okay? And why does connection have to do only with physicality or only hugging 50 people, right?

Drew McLellan:

Well, and some people, by the way, do not want to be hugged. They know I care about them even though they’re like, “Yeah, don’t touch me.”

Amira Alvarez:

Totally, and you give them a high five, or you wave from across the room or whatever, but the fact is that you know that you are already communicating this. Intellectually, you know that you are already communicating this, but your subconscious is saying, “No, Drew. You can’t do that. It doesn’t work like this over here.” Okay? And that’s the rub.

Drew McLellan:

So how do I make that go away?

Amira Alvarez:

Yeah, let’s talk about that. Okay. So there are two basic ways to change behavior, okay? And obviously it’s much deeper than this when we get in there, okay? But fundamentally it’s we have to change the programming in the subconscious mind because the subconscious determines how we look at everything we see. All the stuff coming into our world, okay, this idea. A thing coming into your world is an idea, a person, a place, something you see through your senses, hear. Okay, it’s coming inside from the outside. I said what makes you not be able to do that with 50 people, right? And you went on this whole little windy road, right? You just watched yourself do that, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

This is, by the way, normal, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Thank goodness, right? Yeah, right.

Amira Alvarez:

Right. But that was your subconscious interpreting something from the outside, an idea from the outside, putting the lens of interpretation on that. Then your conscious mind started to talk about all this stuff, but it had already been directed by your subconscious on how to see it, okay? How to interpret it. That’s going to affect the kinds of plans you can create, okay? Does it make sense?

Drew McLellan:

Yes, absolutely.

Amira Alvarez:

So we need to reprogram your subconscious, and there is probably not just this one blind spot that we’ve looked at.

Drew McLellan:

I’m sure there are many.

Amira Alvarez:

Probably quite a few, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Right. Thank god we don’t have time to get into all of them.

Amira Alvarez:

It’d be kind of fun though.

Drew McLellan:

It would be, but probably not for the listeners.

Amira Alvarez:

You don’t know. They might be taking notes, furious notes trying to-

Drew McLellan:

Probably, right?

Amira Alvarez:

… figure out like, “What’s my blind spot?”

Drew McLellan:

Right. I hope so.

Amira Alvarez:

Which is a big deal. I mean, so the challenge with the blind spot is it’s your blind spot, you can’t see it. You’re in the forest, you can’t see the forest for the trees. It’s the definition of what a blind spot is. So that’s why you always need to work with someone outside of you who has a strong enough … is compassionate and understanding but a strong enough directive to be able to see and to hold the lens up and not be afraid to mirror something to you and say, “Look at this.” Right? And it doesn’t have to be done with denigration by any means.

Drew McLellan:

Of course, right.

Amira Alvarez:

Right. Okay. So there’s two ways to change your subconscious beliefs fundamentally. One is by changing your beliefs first, okay? And there’s two ways to do that. One is constant space repetition and one is a shock to your system. So 9/11 happens, or a car accident happens, and something happens and you create some meaning in that moment and it goes straight into your subconscious because you’re wide open. You’re like the fishbowl again, okay? That’s kind of uncontrollable and usually not a very pleasant experience, so let’s take that one off the table, okay?

Drew McLellan:

Okay, good. Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

Okay?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Amira Alvarez:

But sometimes it’s positive. If you fall crazy, madly in love with someone and it maps to a new belief in some other … There’s other ways to open up emotionally but-

Drew McLellan:

But hard to just make happen.

Amira Alvarez:

Correct.

Drew McLellan:

Yes, right.

Amira Alvarez:

And then the other way is thi