Elevate Your Professional Image: Insights from Stylist Morgan Wider

Drew McLellan:
Hey everybody, Drew McLellan here. Yep, you guessed it. Another episode of Build a Better Agency. And you know what? This is a topic that I think is going to surprise you a little bit, but I think it’s also going to fascinate you. So, so stay with us because even if you’re like, nope, not for me, I promise you, within 10 or 15 minutes you’re going to be leaning in and you’re going to be thinking about how it applies directly to you. I promise. In fact, I’ll bet this is one of the episodes. Almost every one of you does something after you listen to it. That’s how applicable it is to you. Before I introduce our guest, I just want to remind you the Build a Better Agency Summit is coming up in May, May 20th and 21st in Denver. Amazing speaker lineup, keynotes, breakouts, roundtables. Best of all, tons of networking and connecting with other agency owners and leaders. We sell out every year. Don’t wait too long. And by the way, the ticket prices just keep going up as we get closer to the event. So grab your ticket. Now before we sell out, we would love to have you join us. Head over to Agency Management Institute in the navigation bar, look for Baba Summit. Click on it and you’re halfway home. All right, we’ll see you here in Denver in May.

All right, now our guest today is a woman named Morgan Wider. And Morgan has a really interesting job. She helps people make sure that their exterior appearance matches the professional that they want people to see. So I’m talking about how we dress, how we accessorize our clothes, which for half of you, you probably have never thought about it. In terms. I know I didn’t. In terms of how do I present professionally, how do I show up? How do I want to show up? Do I want to show up as innovative? Do I want to show up as buttoned up? Do I want to show up as professional? Do I want them to think I’m creative? All of those sorts of things. And how does how I present myself convey that message? So Morgan is going to walk us through some do’s and don’ts some best practices, some mistakes that many of us are probably making. And I promise you, you’re going to be thinking or depending on how you’re listening to this, looking in the mirror and asking yourself a couple questions. So fascinating conversation. I’m super looking forward to it, and I think you’re going to take a lot of away from it as well. All right, let’s get to it. Morgan, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us.

Morgan Wider:
Hi, Drew. I’m so happy to be here.

Drew McLellan:
So tell everybody a little bit about your background and how you came to have this expertise.

Morgan Wider:
Well, I spent 10 years working in corporate retail, so I was the person who determined what you were buying and what price you were buying it at. And then I decided I want to be of service to the world and teach. Teach women and men how to learn how to shop intentionally. And that’s when I started becoming a wardrobe stylist, taking women and men shopping, cleaning up their closets. And then now I work with companies and colleges also on executive presence and branding.

Drew McLellan:
So, you know, a lot of the people listening are, you know, probably on the low end, in their 30s, on the more experienced end, 50s and 60s have been dressing themselves for a long time, and they probably have been dressing themselves the same, probably the men more than the women for a long time. How do we get it wrong? What are we not thinking about when we walk into our closet to get to suit up for the day on a workday? I mean, how we dress on the weekends is different, but on a workday, what are we not thinking about?

Morgan Wider:
I think I want to say the first thing is, is to not say we’re getting it wrong because a lot of us, especially women, aren’t really taught how to dress ourselves. You know, how to, like, zip up your pants and put your shirt on.

Drew McLellan:
Right.

Morgan Wider:
Very rarely are you taught what works for you and how to use your clothing as a way to project your business. So that’s step one is take the burden off yourself or not. Usually taught this. And the second thing is where folks often are getting it wrong is that they’re not thinking about the importance of it. I work with so many really smart people who have all the degrees, these big businesses, and they think that their work is only what matters and not their image. So if you are even just one starting to value and know that your looks are a part of the package, then we have a starting point to go from.

Drew McLellan:
So what does. I can remember I’m dating myself a little bit, but I can remember my mom and all her friends taking some quiz that told them if they were like a spring or a fall or. Right. So beyond that, what, what’s the context of us thinking about how our attire influences how we’re perceived or our brand?

Morgan Wider:
There are so many studies that science has done about how the brain creates decisions based on people and how they look. And they found that the majority of the conclusions that the brain comes to are not about race, gender, identity, age, it is about your wardrobe. So which means that, interesting, you have the ability to, to control the majority of the narrative about what someone thinks about you, whether they like you, trust you, know you want to do business with you based on the choices that you make in your closet. And as entrepreneurs, we are often so focused on the work, the business, the marketing, and we don’t think about, I am the marketing, I am the face of the business and I have to make sure that how I look is in alignment with the greater message of my brand and my business.

Drew McLellan:
So how do we even begin to think about or approach what our wardrobe should say about us, what we want it to say about us, and then figuring out if we’re a mismatch or we’re spot on.

Morgan Wider:
So when I work with clients and in my corporate speaking engagements, I ask my, my, my clients or my audience members to think about a few things. The first thing is who are you? Like, what’s authentic to you, what’s your personality like? Like when you’re at your best, your loved ones, how would they describe you? And then as business owners, what’s the message of your brand? Like, what’s the key thing that you are always about in the core message, your brand. So thinking about describing yourself and knowing who you are is step one. Step two then is thinking about who is your audience, who are you trying to attract in your business, what do they need from you and how are you going to meet that need in your unique way? That’s kind of, you know, it’s an agency, that’s your brand proposition. But thinking about it from your wardrobe is another step. And then once you’re kind of clear on who you are, which is authentic part, and what’s your audience needs from you, then it’s about what’s appropriate on a day to day basis. When I’m, am I going on, on a stage to speak in front of 100 people, am I going on a zoom or a live, how can I be appropriate for the occasion? So thinking about those three things can help you get clear on what your day to day wardrobe should look like and building your brand.

Drew McLellan:
Okay, so let’s. Let’s start with thinking about yourself. So the question. The first question is, who are you authentically? How does one begin? How we perceive ourselves and how the world perceives us are often not the same, number one. Number two, obviously, you want to marry those two things. You want to be. You want to project to the world who you really are so that they see you in as accurate a way as possible. But how do we think about. Like, how do we identify the words? How do we. Is there a. An exercise to take ourselves through that, to say, you know, I really want people to think that I am approachable or I am warm or I am knowledgeable. Like, is there a laundry list of words that I can circle and go, yep, I want to be perceived as this, this, this, and this, because it’s probably not just friendly or warm or kind together.

Morgan Wider:
I hear a lot of people say put together. Oh, that way.

Drew McLellan:
I don’t. I don’t even know what that means.

Morgan Wider:
That’s the comment. Most women say that actually put together.

Drew McLellan:
And what do you think they mean by that word when they say that? What do they mean?

Morgan Wider:
They have equated put together as professional or making the effort. But it’s a very vague term still, because it doesn’t describe who you are. It’s what you do. And so, like, being put together are the actions that it takes to be. To. To look like you made an effort, but what’s your authenticity? And so to answer your question, Drew, thank you for asking this. I’ve actually created my own quiz and assessment that you go through a list of adjectives, and you describe what looks, what feels authentic for you, and then we talk about the audience. So if you’re interested, you can absolutely go to my website and learn more, and we can talk about it. But that simple exercise of five minutes of really thinking about how do I want to show up in the world? Like, what lights me up is so important for your business, but also in your wardrobe.

Drew McLellan:
Well, and I think particularly in our field, there is some pressure to be seen as creative or hip or current or innovative. Right, Right. So I think there’s. I think our industry puts a pressure on our attire, that we are a little bit not cutting edge, but certainly not probably bleeding edge, but that we are current. I think, you know, like that. Because. Because if. If we. If we visually aren’t current, then is our work current?

Morgan Wider:
Bingo. That’s exactly it. It’s. If your work’s not current, can you be the one to give me the innovative ideas.

Drew McLellan:
Right?

Morgan Wider:
And also, what is about your image that’s going to help you stand out from the noise? Like, in any business, when I work with real estate agents or agency owners or doctors or lawyers, you’re not the only one. You’re. The way that you do things might be unique, but how you present and package yourself is the part that’s going to help you stand out.

Drew McLellan:
Right? So. And I think sometimes I would guess that when people do your quiz, they end full disclosure. You and I have already had this conversation. I did the quiz, and we’ll get to that later. But it’s not. It’s not one or two things. It’s a lot of things. Like, you want to be seen as authoritative or knowledgeable, but you also want to be seen as warm or open or creative or. So it’s this jumble of words that don’t necessarily go, oh, I should always wear screaming red, or I should always wear, you know, this kind of clothing, which I think is one of the reasons why people default to having kind of a. You know, like I think of business casual for men is khaki pants and an oxford shirt, right? And. And if I have a meeting with 20 business owners who happen to all be men, most of them will be in some variation of that because it’s just the default.

Morgan Wider:
It’s the default, and it’s what, for men or women, what you should be wearing. It’s almost like mass indoctrination of what your wardrobe should look like. And I would argue that. But even for men, there’s way more room to play with than you think that is, even with those khakis in that oxford. Can your khakis be gray? Can they be navy? Can you do fun socks? Can you have an interesting belt? Can you put a navy sports coat on it? So there’s nothing wrong with having the uniform. But then it’s about, what are the ways that I’m going to stand out? In your case, Drew, you have this really great beard and hair, right? Like, you have a great head of hair that helps you stand out. And we remember you thinking about the small details. Intentionality behind things is really what’s going to help you get dressed in a way that feels good for you. And also, a uniform does make it simple. This is about putting some effort in at the start to get clear on who you are so that each morning you’re not feeling slob, like a slob, but also feeling like, I want you to feel like yourself each day.

Drew McLellan:
And Also that it doesn’t take you an hour and a half to decide what to wear.

Morgan Wider:
No, absolutely.

Drew McLellan:
I, and I, I again, I would guess this is more a male thing than a female thing. But, you know, it’s sort of nice to have the Granimals outfits where it’s like, okay, I got, I have five pairs of pants, I have 10 shirts, I have seven sweaters. And they mix and match in these ways and. Right.

Morgan Wider:
Well, you know, well, here’s the thing. Women have been marketed to, to not be able to do that because women buy clothes more frequently, or so we’re told to. So we have this pressure to have a lot of stuff. And granted, we’re in my closet right now. You can see there’s a lot of clothes in my background. Right. But you don’t have to. You can have a uniform. Mix and match. I was working with the chiropractor and we made her uniform very fun. Interesting pants, solid complementary colored merino wool sweaters. And then she wore her white coat and then she had a few pair of flats that were in complementary colors. That was her uniform. But no one would know what the uniform. But that’s what worked for her and me getting dressed really, really quickly.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah. Okay. So I figure out who I am and how I want to be perceived by the world professionally. Then I think about my audience and I’m like, okay, they’re giving, they’re paying a lot of money for us to really know our stuff. And again, in our world, to be innovative, to understand the current trends and what consumers and other businesses are thinking about and doing. So I have to demonstrate all of that. And then now I know those two facts, whatever those are, right? Each person goes through that. Then what do I do next? Like, how do I know what sweater or what jacket or what pair of pants convey that? Like, where’s the translation book that says gray pants equal approachable, blue pants equal professional? Like, where’s the book?

Morgan Wider:
Well, I am kind of the walking book, as I know you are. Motion. But I do want to say one more, one more component of what you described of knowing who you are and your audience. It’s also important to show your audience that you can relate to them. And what I mean by that is if you are an agency that maybe works mainly with the government, right. And government contracts, you probably aren’t going to do the super creative, cutting edge wardrobe when you’re presenting to the government, right? Might do again a navy sports coat and a white oxford shirt and trousers. And. But maybe again, it’s the socks. It’s the pocket square. Those are things I can show you creativity. Create. Create creative side. But.

Drew McLellan:
But in a small, less, not small, lesser way, and in a way that’s not incongruent with their world, is what I’m hearing you say.

Morgan Wider:
Exactly. So as for me as a professional, I work with professional women mostly, and it might be authentic for me to want to go to a networking event in my sweatpants because I’m not feeling that great that day, or my combat boots that I love to wear, but that’s not appropriate for the audience. So I might do a leather pencil skirt and maybe edgy flats, really cool sneakers, and then a blazer on top. Like, meeting my audience where they are is so important, because if you’re too authentic and not appropriate, you lose business. But also if you’re too appropriate and doing the what I should be wearing, then you lose authenticity, and people can’t connect to you on a human level. And people do business with people who they know like and trust.

Drew McLellan:
Okay, so I know who my audience is. I know I want. I know how I want them to perceive me. I know who I am as a person and how I want. How I want to show up in the world. And my guess is that that doesn’t change, like, who I hope it doesn’t change who I am as a human being and how I want to show up in the world. I kind of want to show up that way for my family. I want to show up that way for my friends. I want to show up that way for my clients. I want to show up that way when I’m on a stage. So is it. Is it more about sort of having a range of. Okay, so if this is. If I’m dressing the Drew doll, right, I have a range of authenticity that it goes from more casual to more formal, depending on what stage I’m on. When I’m on the dad stage, I can be more casual. When I’m literally on the Build a Better Agency Summit stage, literally on a stage or at some other conference on someone else’s stage, I’m obviously more formal, but it all sort of fits in, like, yep, this is the. This is the closet for the Drew doll. This is the set of.

Morgan Wider:
This is the brand. This is the Drew brand. And then the different occasions go underneath that brand. And. And one of my best friends, when I became an entrepreneur, she told me, abc always be closing. And I say that to say that you never know when your next opportunity could come from as an entrepreneur. And so Even if you’re off duty at the grocery store, you could be in line with someone who’s the CEO of the next company that you want to be on. And it’s not to say for women, you have to wear high heels and, and be glamorous. We can post, but it’s saying that how can you be intentional about how you show up, even when you’re casual, to look the part of an expert and to look like a face of your business? And I think oftentimes we think that when we’re off or off, but as agency owners, you’re always on. You always are. And how can you be on brand and feel good about your wardrobe and then just tone down the level of formality depending on the setting?

Drew McLellan:
So what question, what questions do I ask myself? So I’ve got an empty closet and I now need to fill it to dress the Drew doll?

Morgan Wider:
Yes.

Drew McLellan:
What questions do I ask myself to begin to think about what I hang in that closet in terms of, you know, for men, pants and shorts and shirts and jackets and sweaters, and for women, skirts and dresses and pants and, you know, all the. How do I figure out what goes in the closet?

Morgan Wider:
You’re asking me to tell my whole process and in 30 seconds there’s a stylist. But I will say that it starts with who you are we talked about, right? Like, what are the colors you love, what’s the message? What is your lifestyle? So if you’re never getting, if you’re never leaving the house and you’re always in a box of Zoom, we’re going to focus more on really great shirts and tops for you and maybe not as much on shoes. If you have a wide range of life of travel and a level of formality, let’s make sure your closet has that. And then let’s also talk about dressing for your body type, right? Like male or female, making sure that the clothes are fitting and flattering you in a way that honors the current shape and size that you are right now, not who you are five pounds ago, ten pounds ago, ten years ago, two babies ago, whatever. But making sure that your clothes are fitting. And this goes back to that attention to detail and the fact that you are current. If you are wearing clothes that don’t fit you, that is saying that you’re not in the present, you’re actually in the past. And so thinking about fit lifestyle and brand and then how much you really need if you’re not really public facing is also an element too. It’s not about just buying Clothes to buy clothes, but thinking about your true lifestyle.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah. And I think for most of our listeners, and you and I were talking about this before we hit the record button, most of our listeners live on stage. Again, not necessarily literally on a stage. They’re not all speakers, but they are on all the time. They are in front of clients, they are in front of their team. They are put in, put in a position where everyone is looking at them, literally or figuratively, all day, every day. So again, you’re right, it might be that 90% of the time they’re on zoom calls, but they are still front and center as the authority, the expert, the leader. So that I think, I don’t think anybody who’s listening can say, look, I have four, four T shirts and a sweater. I’m good. Right. I mean, I think they do have to have a wider swath of options based on who they’re in front of that day. But they’re always in front of someone.

Morgan Wider:
You are always on.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah.

Morgan Wider:
And I would say that how you, you mentioned someone’s team, how you present yourself as the leader of your agency is the guidepost for how you expect your team members to. And so if you’re not putting effort in your appearance or stuck in the past or you’re not clear in the expectations of how to show up and represent this brand, the people who are working for you are going to be doing the same. And that can be incredibly costly. I will give one example. I had a client of mine who is a lawyer who has, she owns her own firm, big time personal injury firm. And she said on Friday that she wanted all of her staff, including herself, to wear red polos for when folks came, clients came into the office. And I said, but you as the head of this multimillion dollar personal injury firm, you as a female in any, any gender actually, in a red polo does not say you’re the boss when you’re, when your team. And so like, we can wear red blazers, red power suits, we can have fun with red. But make sure that you look like the boss and the leader. Everyone else will fall in the line.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah. Okay, so how do I begin to. I mean, obviously no one has an empty closet. Everybody has clothes already in their closet. So does it start with sort of sorting through what you already have and seeing what matches who you’re authentically supposed to be, how you want to be perceived by your audience and the range of formality you live in?

Morgan Wider:
Absolutely. It starts with going through assessing.

Drew McLellan:
I.

Morgan Wider:
That is the first step when anyone Wants help from me as a stylist, I have to see what’s in your closet. We have to purge what no longer serves you. And we can probably make more outfits of what you already own once we know what’s in there. Oftentimes we buy a lot of men and women buy last minute impulse buy or I have an event coming up and I gotta go buy a dress or a tux or something. Let’s look at all the drawers, see what we have, see what we love and what we don’t love and why we might have stopped wearing something. And how can we make the most and get a return on our investment? By cleaning out and then making new outfits of what you have.

Drew McLellan:
Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about some of the mistakes we make with our wardrobe. Some of the things that we think are conveying one thing, but they’re conveying another. So, so let’s take a break and then let’s come back and talk about what are some small tweaks that we can think about as we, as we look through our closet and we think about our, our wardrobe. What are some things that maybe are accidentally do doing something that we don’t want them to do. So we’ll take a break and then we’ll come back and we’ll start with sort of the mistakes that we accidentally make.

Morgan Wider:
All right, sounds good.

Drew McLellan:
Hey, everybody, thanks for listening today. Before I get back to the interview, I just want to remind you that we are always offering some really amazing workshops and you can see the whole schedule@agencymanagementinstitute.com on the navigation head to how we help. Scroll down and you’ll see workshops and you can see the whole list there with descriptions of each workshop. They are all in Denver and we’ve got them throughout the year for agency owners, account Execs, agency leaders, CFOs. We have a little something for everybody. No matter what it is that you’re struggling with, people, new business, money, all of those things we’ve got covered. So check them out and come join us. All right, let’s get back to the show. All right, we are back with Morgan and we are talking about how we dress and the brand and the messaging that comes along with those choices. And you know, what Morgan was saying at the top of the hour was that we often don’t pause to think about how impactful how we present ourselves is and that it is very influential. And, and the science proves it is very influential in terms of how people perceive our depth of expertise, how likable we are, how approachable we are, how smart we are, if we’re worth what we charge an hour. All of those things come from how we present ourselves and that we don’t often think about that in the level of detail, especially if we’ve been, you know, dressing in a certain way for a long time. You know, for a lot of us, I think we’re at an age where we. Our size doesn’t change that much anymore. So we probably have clothes.

Morgan Wider:
I don’t know about that, Drew.

Drew McLellan:
Maybe. Maybe that true. But I think a lot of people have stuff in their closet they’ve had there for a long time, and it’s sort of their go to shirt or sweater or whatever dress. Right. So what are some things that you see professionals like us doing that don’t serve us well?

Morgan Wider:
The first and easiest fix is color intentionality. Picking colors that. And you mentioned your mom in the seasons thing.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah, right.

Morgan Wider:
That is learning the colors that work for your skin tone is one part. But the bigger part that I preach to my clients in my course and all of the things is picking colors for your message. When you are on whatever proverbial stage you’re talking about, making sure that the color choices you’re wearing are going to be of service to the message you’re delivering. So, for example, because your face is giving me a face of like, let me explain this. If you are someone who wants to create connection with your audience or maybe deliver bad news to your team or to a client, I wouldn’t wear fire up orange or red. I’m going to wear blues, whites, lavenders, light pinks. Things that are more soothing if I want to inspire my audience and get them riled up. If I’m in a large crowd and I even need to maybe pump myself up, that’s the reds oranges. Marketing. If you think about fast food agents, fast food brands, all of the ones that want you to stop immediately and get a hamburger are in those red oranges to create urgency. So thinking about your colors in relation to your brain and your messages is one thing, and then the next thing is thinking about print choice. And Andrew, you and I talk, talked about this, where Drew has this really great closet. He’s very clear on the colors that work for him. But I suggested that sometimes on bigger stages, the print can be a little bit busy because the eye is looking at Drew’s shirt and not his face. So thinking about, again, the occasion of what you’re. Where you’re going and making sure that you’re Using clothes as the backdrop. The nice backdrop to draw attention to you, but keep the attention on your words, your face, and your message.

Drew McLellan:
Okay, so what other mistakes do we make?

Morgan Wider:
Fit. No matter what gender identity you are, make sure that your clothes are fitting you and are flat out. This is the new year that we’re doing this interview. We might not have done our resolutions to get in the gym yet. Make sure that we are. We’re honoring who we are right now and learning fit.

Drew McLellan:
So fit. We probably immediately go to. It shouldn’t be too tight. I. But I. I also think. And again, not my area of expertise, but I often think, especially if somebody is unhappy with their body. And so I used to weigh significantly more than I do now. And I think that one of the things I did back then was I wore clothes that were too big.

Morgan Wider:
Too big.

Drew McLellan:
Right. Because I thought if it was super baggy, then I wasn’t. Right. But I don’t think that actually served me very well looking back.

Morgan Wider:
It does not. And looking back on pictures than what you are. You say honoring no matter what, and I preach this to everybody. Type in every person. No matter what size you currently are, you’re worthy of being seen. That that body kept you alive in a global pandemic. It’s allowing you to do the work that you’re doing. Honor that body with clothes that are flattering to it. So it’s one thing to talk about fit, but also flattering. Even in the case of male identifying people, different blazer types work better for different body types. Different rises of cuts. You may not be as my. My partner is a 35 waist, hard to find in stores. So we buy 36 and then we alter them down. That shows attention to detail. Never honoring who he is right now.

Drew McLellan:
Okay, what. What else do we do that we think looks good or is conveying a certain message, but we’re getting it wrong?

Morgan Wider:
The other common mistake a lot of professionals make is shooting themselves. I should wear the polo and khakis because everybody’s wearing it. Or in the case of women, I should wear the cardigan and blouse because that’s what everyone does or that’s what’s business casual. Or I should wear a menswear inspired suit because that’s what I’ve been taught to equate as professionalism. And when you should yourself, you end up with a wardrobe that’s not that great. I was going to say another S word, but it’s a wardrobe that doesn’t honor who you are. And so thinking about I’m Going to give one quick study. There was a Harvard study. It was in a country club. And they. Most of the participants of the male participants of the country club had on black tuxes and black bow ties. One person in the audience had on a red bow tie. And then there was observers of this party. And the observers of the party assumed that the man wearing the red bow tie had more wealth, more power, and more influence than everyone else in the room. And the same conclude with, if you will stand out a little bit, you are in a position of power that you can absorb the risk of not being accepted. Almost like, isn’t that interesting? So if you, if you are willing to stand out, then you are a way of saying, I’m not desperate for your business. I, I’m good on who I am, and I’m willing to stand in that truth of who I am. And, and, you know, when it comes back to dating, not being desperate is really attractive. And so thinking about how can you intentionally find little ways to stand out, show that you know the rules, but find a way to make your play on them is incredibly powerful for a brand.

Drew McLellan:
And I think for in our space, particularly, because we don’t want to be one of the sheep that does everything the way everybody else does. Exactly right. And if. And if I dress the way everybody else does, what would make you think that when I deliver creative work for you, it’s going to be something different than what everybody else gets? Right?

Morgan Wider:
Totally, Drew. And there’s also studies that show that the clothing that we put on not only controls the way that people perceive us, but how we perceive ourselves. So if you’re trying to create the next big creative idea and you’re wearing the should wardrobe, the wardrobe that you think is part of the cultural norm or that you don’t feel good in, your brain is not in the mode to create those new ideas. So with the choices that you wear are two way street of how you. They impact how you feel and how you stand in your body and present yourself and then how people perceive you.

Drew McLellan:
So let’s take, let’s take a should outfit for women and I should outfit for men and tell us how we would tweak that to again, to your point, saying, I see, I know the rules, I respect the rules, but I’m going to bend the rules. So what’s a should outfit for professional women?

Morgan Wider:
A black pantsuit.

Drew McLellan:
Okay.

Morgan Wider:
And a white blouse.

Drew McLellan:
Black black pants or a skirt, Black blazer and a white blouse. Okay.

Morgan Wider:
Yes. That is the should. If you are an agency Owner. Here’s a couple of ways to one, buy the suit in another color. Even if you’re not ready to go full on orange or red or cobalt blue. Do navy Next. If you want to keep the black suit, do a leopard shoe. Do a red lipstick. Do a really great necklace. Do something that’s going to help stand you out in a way that shows that you’re putting something together in a creative way. It can be accessories, it can be makeup, it can be a blouse underneath there or it can be playing with color.

Drew McLellan:
Okay, so what’s a should outfit for men?

Morgan Wider:
It is usually I’ll do a business casual version, polo shirt and khakis because they say that that’s comfortable.

Drew McLellan:
Right.

Morgan Wider:
Your way to ensure that wardrobe is instead of a polo shirt, look at maybe a merino wool sweater, thin knit sweater that’s long sleeve, a little bit more professional and interesting color, but still stretchy and comfortable. You can do your chinos in a different color. You can have really fun socks. You can even pair like a monochromatic look with like navy chinos and like a powder blue sweater that’s going to show an interest. If you are really focused on doing a polo. You like that silhouette instead of the. And I’m a golfer, but that awful polo. I mean that golf material, polo. Maybe do it in a elevated Pima cotton or sweater knit and that’s going to show professionalism, expertise. And then maybe try it with oxfords, like cognac oxfords instead of your sneakers or instead of a boat shoe. And instead of a boat shoe.

Drew McLellan:
Okay, what are some of the ways that the little ways like you mentioned socks or pocket squares or a great necklace. What are some of the, the things that we can have in our closet that are allow us to put in a pop of energy, color, personality to a more formal sort of look.

Morgan Wider:
Glasses are always trendy, even if you don’t wear like need them. Like I’m blind as a bat without my contacts. But glasses can be a really fun accessory. You can get them very cheaply. They can be really cool colors. They can be part of your brand. Reading glass. And if you have to use reading glasses as we age, make them cool and look intentional Jewelry always. I had a client who was her message was about grit and overcoming struggle. So she always wore multi layers of pearls because pearls are made out of grit. Interesting. Yeah, right. Like this, like I. We remember those things. I had another, a gentleman client who was a younger guy, but he was working in some more corporate spaces. But he was the innovator instead of blazers, we did bomber jackets. And I know that’s not like that, but those are ways to show your difference of taking a blazer and putting your spin on it. There’s always shoes for whatever gender identity you are. There’s. You can do. You can make Jordans your thing. You can make Chuck Taylor’s your thing. You can make high heels your thing. Shoes are an easy, easy way. Hair, Hair color, grooming, nails are often a thing. Men and women now are doing something interesting with their nails. All of those little things can show parts of you, and they are what I call conversation starters. People will come up to you and say, oh, tell me about that ring that you’re wearing. And then there’s a conversation, and then you might have found your next client.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah, it’s interesting. So one of. One of the things that I observe about my wife, Danielle, is on an elevator, on an escalator, in a meeting or whatever. She is hardwired to notice something about someone else and go, oh, I love your shoes. I love your necklace. I love your earring. And I’m fascinated by the length and depth of conversation that happens. The minute she says that to a man or woman. Doesn’t matter who.

Morgan Wider:
Doesn’t matter who. Right.

Drew McLellan:
Like, I’m like, we’re going to be on this elevator forever having this conversation.

Morgan Wider:
About these earrings tell stories about us.

Drew McLellan:
Right, right.

Morgan Wider:
They show indicators, and that is an easy way to get people to talk about themselves without saying, tell me about yourself. Right, right. Your wife’s brilliant.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah, she is brilliant. But. But it is fascinating how invested people are in telling those stories.

Morgan Wider:
Yes.

Drew McLellan:
And, you know, like, the pearl necklace and the grit, like, if I met that woman and I heard her on stage and I saw the pearl necklace, I would never. I would never connect those dots. Right. But her connecting the dots for me would make me go, wow, that was really thoughtful that she spent that much time thinking about that and messaging. So it’s. It’s an interesting layer for us to think about, like, what are the subtle things we could do that we don’t have to announce to the world? The reason why I’m wearing this is because of blah, blah, blah. But if and when someone asks or notices your socks, your pocket square, your bracelet or whatever, that it. It shows intentionality and thoughtfulness is really an interesting thought.

Morgan Wider:
Totally. There’s one of my favorite books is called Executive Presence by Sylvia de Hewitt. And in part of the books, they interview tons of executives about, like, what is executive presence? Like, when you’re looking for it in someone, what is it? And a lot of people assume that it’s necessary, it’s beauty or it’s, you know, natural kind of charisma factor. And the number one thing, what it actually is, is showing that you made the effort, showing intentionality, showing that you cared enough about your audience, whomever you might see, to dress in a way that respects the occasion. And so this is, again, not about needing to be the most gorgeous person in the room and most handsome guy or being all glammed out all the time, but showing intentionality and thought shows that you care about yourself, but also respect the audience that you’re going to be seen. And even if that audience is someone in the elevator.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah, it’s interesting. So as people are listening and they’re saying, okay, maybe I haven’t been as intentional, or maybe there are some things in my closet that have been there for a long time and they’re more comfort than they are perhaps appropriate. What’s the. What’s the start? How does somebody begin to. I’ve thought about. I understand how I want to be perceived. I understand my audience. I understand I have this range of stages that I’m on, from casual to formal. I have a closet full of stuff. Now what do I begin to do to sort of be more to. To your point, to be more intentional, to make the effort?

Morgan Wider:
Call me. Yeah, you know, it really is about getting help. And so of course, you know, you can go to my website, which will be LinkedIn, and book a free call and we can talk about ways to work together. But it’s sometimes it is about going to. I will say this. If it’s not hiring a stylist or having someone to work with, which is very common for everyday people, which I want to say, it’s not just celebrities who work with stylists. It is maybe going to a department store and having someone like Nordstrom is a great partner of mine, and they have in store stylists that can help you. Keep in mind that they get paid based on commission. So just keep that in mind. I would say get outside help. Do not ask your wife or your stylish sister or your best friend to help you. And here’s why. Because like you mentioned earlier, Drew, their vision of you may not be the vision you want of yourself. And those people might have an investment somehow of you staying the same and may not encourage you to change. So getting someone objective and can be your guidepost on how to maybe, or your navigator through style is a really great way to Define your brand and.

Drew McLellan:
That outside perspective is somebody asking you questions, somebody giving you, reflecting back to you what is hard for us to see about ourselves. Right.

Morgan Wider:
Shopping for you and brands that you would have never considered. Taking the, the. The navy blazer that you only wear with the black or the brown pants and making five new outfits with them as fresh set of eyes can be incredibly helpful for what you already own, but also helping you add to your wardrobe and get you out of the style rut that you may be in.

Drew McLellan:
When you start to work with someone, what is the most common truth that you discover that is most sort of transformational for them in terms of them making a leap or a change on the other side? Like, what’s. What do you. What is. What is what you see that they don’t see?

Morgan Wider:
So I’ve never been asked that question, Drew, and I love that question. And I’m, I’m going to answer it in this way. I’m really good at seeing people. And by seeing people, I, I’m able to see like their essence and personality and then match clothes with that. And so I don’t know if that’s the common thing, but I guess I would say that every person has their own magic, right? Like they have their essence, they have the way that they show up in the world. And because you have it, you may not recognize it or think that it’s worthy of being celebrated or how to package it. But that’s the best part of my job. I’m. I’m looking. My wall of inspiration here has clients that I’m looking at and I’m looking at each one and how we’ve worked together. And all of them are different, but they have, like, how do they show up in the world? I love helping to express that. And the one more easier kind of like not woo woo. Answer to your question is a common thing that is for everyone is that most people own more than they think they do. They often are quick to want to go shopping outside and go to the mall or go online and do retail therapy and not shop their closets.

Drew McLellan:
And so I know what’s in my closet. So is it just that it’s stuff I never wear or I don’t think about pairing them with different things.

Morgan Wider:
Exactly.

Drew McLellan:
Okay.

Morgan Wider:
And for some of us, you know, you. But Drew, like, you’re not the average guy in how your wardrobe looks right now. Like, you were intentional. You’ve curated. You make choices that based on how you want to show up in the world, folks may not have done that work so you honestly may not know what’s in your closet. And even though you know what’s in it, you may not be reaching for it, or you may not even know if it fits you in a way that works for you and your lifestyle. Right now, I’ve had so many entrepreneurs that I work with who still have their suits from their, from their corporate days hanging in their closet just in case. Right? And like, that is in, like, let’s get rid of those. Like, let’s keep one maybe, but we don’t need all of them. Like, being a fresh set of eyes will help you see things that you walk past every single day.

Drew McLellan:
So does to work with someone like you, do you have to literally be in my closet? Like, what does that, what does that look like virtually?

Morgan Wider:
Yeah, for some folks, I do fly and travel to them, and we do this in person. But for the majority of my clients, it’s virtual. So you will take your laptop or your phone, and we will do zoom. And I will help you say yay or nay to every single item that’s in your closet over a series of sessions so we don’t get tired. And then the shopping, and the shopping suggestions are done on an online platform that is private to you and custom for you. And then you text me, you call me. I love working with clients and we do touch points where they have a big business trip. And so we’re in your closet and I’m making the list for you of everything that you’re going to pack and sending you that list back so that you know what you’re packing that you can maybe get in a carry on instead of having to check a bag.

Drew McLellan:
I’m just thinking, I’m thinking about the amount of time it takes people to pack. And you and I were talking earlier, you know, I, I do have a pretty set uniform, so I can, I can pack for a week long trip in about seven minutes. My wife, on the other hand, because there’s boots and there’s things and it’s mixing and matching and you can’t wear the same thing during the day as you do at night. And the thing. And I’m just like, well, I’m just gonna throw a sweater on, you know, for night or whatever. So I would think that for many people, the idea of helping their spouse pack better and faster would be worth the investment just alone.

Morgan Wider:
It is. You know, so many of my clients, like, that is when they, when they hire me as part of the package, those sessions are the ones that they are just like, oh, My gosh. Like this. This is. This is a game changer. And yeah, I love that I’m able to teach you principles so that you know what to do the next time. One quick packing tip for all of you, men or women, start with your shoes. Build every outfit based on the two or three shoes that you were packing. And. And then go up. So start there and go up. Because shoes add a lot of bulk and. And can make things complicated.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah. I think it’s adorable that you think there’s only two pairs of shoes in a suitcase, but, I mean, that’s what I pack. But I’m just saying that’s not how it works at my house. But. So let’s talk a little bit about if people do want to take the quiz, which they can take. And they’ll get a feedback right away from. If they want to take the quiz, if they want to learn more about your work, if they want to. I’m sure 99% of the people listening to this podcast have never thought about hiring a stylist. It’s just never occurred to them. Right. They are in a position to do that. B, they need to do that. That there’s business value in that. By the way, this is an. Absolutely. A business deduction, people.

Morgan Wider:
Yes.

Drew McLellan:
Right. So this is not a personal expense, It’s a business expense.

Morgan Wider:
Absolutely.

Drew McLellan:
But if people want to learn more about what it’s like to work with a stylist, because you’re right, I think everyone’s like, well, yeah, famous people work with stylists or rich people work with stylists. How do they. How do they learn more about your work? How do they take the quiz, learn more about themselves, explore the idea of perhaps partnering with you. What does that all look like?

Morgan Wider:
First step would be to start with a quick phone call. So on my website, there’s book a call, 15 minutes via Zoom or Feedback. I would prefer you get on camera, but 15 minutes where you talk about your style. I’ll send you the quiz while we’re on the phone and then I can walk you through what your results are. That is the easiest way. Sometimes I don’t like to give the quiz out to the public without walking them through it and also without walking through the results. Because you might have come out as one brand or one style Persona, but that might not be who you want to be. And I say that because sometimes that goes back to the shitting. Like, my audience feels like I should be this, but deep down, I really want to be this or my current role in My company is this, but I want to be the creative. So those are why it’s a conversation between us, not a total prescription.

Drew McLellan:
And again, there’s no obligation to that. Right. That’s. Yeah. Right. Okay.

Morgan Wider:
Absolutely not. Yes. I want to make sure that it is a right fit of. I can help you get to where you want to go in a way that is in the right timeline, in a way that feels authentic for you and that I enjoy working with you. You know, as agency owners, I’m essentially an owner of a business.

Drew McLellan:
Right.

Morgan Wider:
I did this so I can choose who I work with and love what I do and want to make sure that I can be of service to the right people as well.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah. I think one of the greatest privileges of owning your own business is you get to serve people that you want to serve. For sure.

Morgan Wider:
Absolutely. And I will confess, though, most of my clients, they mentioned this wall. Like, you’re stuck with me. Like, I love the people that I get to work with.

Drew McLellan:
Right.

Morgan Wider:
And there’s. One of my core values is intimacy. And. And I say that as a way of, like, I, like I value people, male or female, getting intimate with about who they are. Right. Like I’m in your closet. This is a area that most people don’t see virtually in person. And I want to make sure that you’re willing to go there with me, and I’m going to go there with you and not be general or generic or inauthentic.

Drew McLellan:
Right. Right. Well. Right. I mean, again, to your point of. At the top of our conversation, the advice you give if someone follows it is incredibly influential in the way the world sees them and how successful they are. So that’s a. That’s a big risk for someone to hire you to do that, and it’s a big obligation for you to do it well and get it right because it has lasting impact on them.

Morgan Wider:
It is a work that I hold sacred. I. I have been able to dress couples for their wedding days. The. The most visible day. I. I have dressed countless people for headshots and photos for their websites, baby showers, business branding, speeches on stage pitches. That is a honor that I don’t. I mean, actually a little emotional thinking about this. Like, it is an honor I don’t take lightly to get. To help support people in their biggest, most visible moments.

Drew McLellan:
Yeah. So let’s close with this. First of all, give people the URL or how they. How do they find you?

Morgan Wider:
Okay. Morganwider.com It’s O R G A N W I D E R Like Longer, bigger and wider. Wider.com.

Drew McLellan:
All right. And we’ll put that in the show notes, too. A last. A quick tip. Headshots. What do we do wrong with headshots?

Morgan Wider:
What do you do wrong?

Drew McLellan:
Or what should we get right? Which we do to get it right?

Morgan Wider:
Black. In their headshots, like a black suit or a black blazer, the thing to do is pick one or two things to make you stand out. Color choice of blazer, of shirt, of tie, an accessory or lipstick for women. Like, make some. Make one intentional choice that’s going to add color, not print, to help you stand out and stop the people from scrolling on LinkedIn or wherever they are.

Drew McLellan:
Okay. Awesome. Morgan, this has been fascinating. I still have a ton of questions, but. So maybe we’ll have you come back. We’ll do a round two.

Morgan Wider:
I love this. This has been so much fun.

Drew McLellan:
This is fascinating. So than you so much for. I don’t think we think about this very much. I don’t think we’re as intentional as we need to be. And I. And I think we take it for granted. And. And I think you’ve helped people realize that, a, they have a lot more control over how they’re perceived and that they have a lot more freedom to show up the way they want to show up and that they don’t have to, as you said, should themselves to death by living in a box. Especially given what we do for a living, we shouldn’t be in a box. That’s the whole point of the work. And so how do we find that balance between that professionalism and being true to who we are? So this has been a great conversation. Thanks for. Thanks for being with us.

Morgan Wider:
Thank you, Drew. It’s been a fun time conversating with you.

Drew McLellan:
It has been fun. All right, guys, so here’s the deal. I know all of you are listening to this, and. And the next thing you’re going to do is walk into your closet. So get in there. And I would love to hear from you. What did you discover in your closet after you listened to Morgan? Like, what were you like, oh, my God, what was I thinking? Why do I still have this chartreuse sweater from high school?

Morgan Wider:
Or why something your sister or grandmother passed down to you or something like that?

Drew McLellan:
Right? I can’t wait to find out what you purge out of your closet. And what’s one new thing that you add to your wardrobe that makes you feel authentically you, that makes you stand out in a crowd. That is something you’re proud of. That Danielle’s gonna see you in and ask you about and you’re gonna have a whole story about. So I would love to hear from you sort of what that your takeaways were from this episode. So this is again, this is an action driven episode where do something with what Morgan has taught us today and do it to make yourself more comfortable, more confident, more you give us a better sense of who you are and what you’re all about and what matters to you. I think that’s, that’s a great challenge. All right, before I let you go, huge shout out and thank you to our friends at White Label iq. As you know, they have been the presenting sponsor of the podcast for many years. They come alongside agencies and they do white label design, dev and ppc. And they price it in a way to make sure that your clients get great value. And because they are, they came from an agency, they understand that you need to be profitable too. So they’ve baked in profitability for them and for you, an incredible value and product for your client. Head over to white label iq.com/ami to learn more about them. And guess what? I, I promise you the next so you don’t see me on video for this podcast except for the solo casts, if you happen to watch those on video. So you need to watch some of those and see if I’m paying attention to what Morgan is teaching us. And I want to hear from you if you think that I’m getting it wrong, if I’m being inauthentic, if you don’t think I’m dressing the way I want you to see me or the way I am. I would love that feedback. Morgan gave me some tips along before we hit the record button that I’m going to put into play. So let me know what you think and we will, we will appreciate each other’s authenticity in our attire. All right, I’ll be back next week. I’m going to dress a little better next week. Hopefully you will too. And I’ll see you then. All right, thanks for listening.

Drew McLellan:
That’s a wrap for this week’s episode of Build better agency. Visit agencymanagementinstitute.com to check out our workshops, coaching and consulting packages and all the other ways we serve agencies just like yours. Thanks for listening.