Serve your clients: selling without selling with Michelle Weinstein

Speaker 1:

If you’re going to take the risk of running an agency, shouldn’t you get the benefits too? Welcome to Agency Management Institute’s Build A Better Agency podcast, presented by HubSpot. We’ll show you how to build an agency that can scale and grow with better clients, invested employees, and best of all, more money to their bottom line. Bringing his 25+ years of experience as both an agency owner and agency consultant, please welcome your host, Drew McLellan.

Drew McLellan:

Hey everybody, Drew McLellan here with another episode of Build A Better Agency. Today, we are going to talk about sales, which I know for a lot of you is sort of a dirty word. I know that for many of you, when I talk to agency owners, and I say, “Tell me about your sales process, your biz dev process,” a lot of you talk about referrals and repeat clients and all of that. But, when it gets down to actually having a system or a process around sales, it’s one of those places where agency owners tend to shy away from it. I think we shy away from it for a lot of reasons.

Number one, I think we are afraid of being rejected. I think we are simply too busy. And so, because it’s not a thing we love to do… I’m a firm believer in if something is important to you, and if it’s something you enjoy, you will find the time to do it. I see that every day in my own personal life certainly, but I see it in the agency owners that I work with. And one of the reasons why I think that sales is really challenging for agency owners is that we don’t carve out the time to do it.

As you’re going to hear, and I’m going to tell you about my guest in just a second, but as you’re going to hear in the conversation that we had, honestly part of sales is making time for sales. And so, I’m a huge proponent of actually carving out some time and not being in the office. So, one of the things I like to recommend to agency owners is that you carve out, even if it’s just half a day, that you carve out at least half a day, and you work somewhere else other than at the office because you all know what happens when you get to the office, the minute you walk in the door, they’re lined up to talk to you.

So, maybe it’s a morning, maybe it’s an afternoon. The iffy part of the afternoon is that you oftentimes get caught up in something and there’s a fire, and you don’t get out. So, I highly recommend mornings, and what I would recommend is that you pick a morning a week. So, let’s call it Tuesday mornings, block it off on your calendar, make it absolutely impossible for people to schedule something with you on that Tuesday morning, and be uber disciplined about you not violating it. Because actually, the one who violates it the most is you. So, carve out that Tuesday morning, put it on your calendar, don’t schedule anything, and that is your biz dev time.

That’s your time to work on the prospect list, that’s the time for you to do the research you need to do, it might be the time that you make phone calls or send emails, whatever it is, that’s biz dev time for you. And as ridiculous as it sounds, if you can carve out three or four hours once a week, down the road we’ll talk about doing more, but for now, just three or four hours, you will be amazed at how much you get done and where you go with sales.

The other thing that I want to put into your brain before we dive into this conversation with our guest today is one of the things that I think is also intimidating about sales for agency owners is this idea that we have to have this huge list of potential prospects that we have to go after. If any of you have heard me speak at a conference about new business or anything else, you know that I am a firm believer that you should have a list of 25 nano levels, so super small, microscopic level, right? 25 companies that you would kill to work with and that you are going to pursue on an ongoing basis until they hire you someday or they get a restraining order, that’s it.

Honestly, here’s part of the criteria, they should be at least 10% of your current AGI. Don’t waste time chasing after minnows, do not waste the time. I want you to chase after big fish, and when you do chase after big fish, the reality is you have to win one or two a year for you to literally double in size every three years. That’s assuming you keep your current clients, you grow your current clients a little bit. But, in general, one or two wins of clients who are 10% of your total AGI, one or two a year will allow you to double in size in three years. And that’s how I want you to focus your time, and that’s how I want you to focus that one half day a week that you are carving out for biz dev.

So, when all of a sudden you start thinking about I only have to win one or two, that’s a whole lot less daunting. So, let me tell you a little bit about my guest today and why I’m so excited to have her on the show. Michelle Weinstein is a sales strategist. She teaches mission driven entrepreneurs how to sell without being sleazy. She has literally busted through doors and impressed CEOs at billion dollar companies, and she has sold everything from food products to wardrobes to $30000 online education programs to meatballs. She’s done it all. She’s been on Shark Tank, she has raised over $1 million for her last company, and she now teaches entrepreneurs how to sell.

So, I think you’re going to learn a ton from her, I know that I am. I’m ready to take copious notes. But, I think part of what I want you to hear from her is that sales doesn’t have to be scary or sleazy or hard. I think sometimes we make it harder than it needs to be, and I think in an hour, you’re going to agree with me. And so, without further ado, I want to get talking to Michelle, and let her start making you smarter and more excited about sales. So, Michelle, welcome to the podcast.

Michelle Weinstein:

Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, we are going to get excited about sales.

Drew McLellan:

We are going to get excited. People are going to be cheering by the end of the podcast.

Michelle Weinstein:

You’re going to be doing jumping jacks.

Drew McLellan:

Wow. Okay.

Michelle Weinstein:

Yeah.

Drew McLellan:

Okay, we’re going to check on that at the end of the hour. So, one of the things that made me know that you had to be a guest on the podcast is the idea that you understand that entrepreneurs as a whole are not really excited about sales. So, as you know, people listening to this podcast own an agency. They’re in the grind day to day with clients, they are the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker inside their agency, and most of them quite honestly, of all the task that they have, the one they enjoy the least is sales, and the one that keeps their business alive is sales.

Michelle Weinstein:

Is sales, it is.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Michelle Weinstein:

And we all have this thing where we want to work for ourselves and we don’t want to work for anybody else, so that’s why you start an agency. And then, you’re like, “Whoa, well, I actually have to do the selling to get the clients.” We’re going to really love sales at the end of this, because that’s how you get paid the big bucks, right?

Drew McLellan:

Right, and most agencies, the way they start, in the first couple years, they can fill the client coffers with people they know, referrals. So, I think at a certain point in time, an agency hits the brick wall of, I have now exhausted my “Rolodex,” and now I actually have to go out and sell what I do to people who don’t know me, who don’t know our reputation. So, at that point, an agency owner is like, “Oh, crap, I got to do this.”

Michelle Weinstein:

Right.

Drew McLellan:

So, how do they get from there to actually having a system and a process? What separates somebody who at that moment is going to be successful at sales and somebody who is going to really flounder in sales?

Michelle Weinstein:

Yeah. So, what I like to do is if you hate that word, sale, it’s like the bad four letter word as a lot of people say, what if you think about as serving your client, right? You started an agency for a reason, and I think you really need to go back and remind yourself why did you start it, what are those goals that you wanted to achieve. Maybe the power of not having to work for somebody else outweighs actually serving your clients more. And if you can think about it from a serving aspect, when you’re going out and doing the networking, you actually get to pick your client, you get to pick who you want to work with, you get to pick your hours. You probably started your own agency for freedom and flexibility. I’m going to just guess that those are two very important-

Drew McLellan:

That’s right.

Michelle Weinstein:

Are those important?

Drew McLellan:

Absolutely.

Michelle Weinstein:

Okay.

Drew McLellan:

Absolutely.

Michelle Weinstein:

So, with all of those being said, I think a lot of times, we need to actually write them down, and you need to remind yourself of these things on a daily basis, because otherwise the sales is just going to be a grind and you’re going to flounder. If we don’t have that mission of why, and the reason as to why we’re doing what we do, and how are you so much different than all the other agencies out there, and why are you so great to work with. When you see that you’re actually able to serve your clients at a greater level and provide unique value propositions and other things that you can offer, it actually… you’re like, “Wow, I’m just actually doing what I love to do.”

Drew McLellan:

Right, right.

Michelle Weinstein:

And you’re not even having to sell.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Michelle Weinstein:

And you can take that pressure off. I think we all just put a lot of pressure on us, so I’m here to just remove the pressure and help you see it from a different point of view.

Drew McLellan:

So, from that though, I still have to put together a list of people that I think we could serve well, and I have to connect with them in some way.

Michelle Weinstein:

Yeah.

Drew McLellan:

So, is there a, especially for a service industry, because I know that throughout your career, you have sold everything, so that’s…

Michelle Weinstein:

I have.

Drew McLellan:

But, stuff, tangible stuff, and also services-

Michelle Weinstein:

And services. So-

Drew McLellan:

How is it different?

Michelle Weinstein:

For the products versus the services?

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, what do we need to know?

Michelle Weinstein:

I mean-

Drew McLellan:

What do we have to do that’s different because we’re selling something intangible?

Michelle Weinstein:

Well, I think the biggest thing, if you’re having a service based business which is what I focus on know, the biggest thing that I try to get are your brag book in place, your testimonials in place, your success stories, your reviews on your service and products. Just think of all of the non product based items that you… It’s not a food product, because they can’t taste and say, “Oh yeah, that tasted good.” You can only rely on maybe what someone else said of your service.

So, I like to call it the brag book, the brag bible, your testimonial book, your emails of how people have actually implemented what you showed them. So, for your agency, maybe you helped a website get from this traffic to this traffic, and then you had social media from here to here. So, whatever the emails are coming in from your client, of your successes, you want that also. Maybe it’s text messages, I get a lot of text messages from people that I’ve been able to help, and I keep them, and then I make an image collage of it, and I share it with other people. So, with a service based business, I actually believe it’s easier. It’s much easier to serve and help people in a service based business than it is in a product.

Drew McLellan:

See that, okay listeners, it’s easier for us to sell-

Michelle Weinstein:

It is.

Drew McLellan:

Than if we had-

Michelle Weinstein:

It is.

Drew McLellan:

Something we were trying to get on the shelves of Costco, so there you have it.

Michelle Weinstein:

It is night and day easier because you can make an instant impact, right? You can make-

Drew McLellan:

In the first 10 minutes, you’ve taken off all the pressure, and you reminded them that it’s easier. They’re crying with joy by now.

Michelle Weinstein:

Right, but it doesn’t become just easier just like with the snap of your fingers.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Michelle Weinstein:

You actually have to do a little bit of research and work, which is probably right at your fingertips, you just haven’t actually spent like, “Okay, I’m going to block out an hour this week, and here are the five things I’m going to do. I’m going to put my brag bible together, I’m going to go through my emails and actually compile all of the great emails that I’ve gotten from all of the clients that I’ve served, and look and see what results did I actually achieve.” Another thing you guys can do is put a conglomeration of all of your emails of who you helped. So, if you’ve had 10 clients for example, and let’s say all 10 you started from scratch with these companies. I’m making stuff up right now, but just listen along.

What if you said that with helping these companies, they made an impact on one million people altogether. Well, that sounds pretty impactful. So, you need to see… I don’t know what kind of companies you’re working with in your agencies, but think of… I’m sure they’re kind of all niche specific, so maybe it’s meal companies like my last company, and you’ve got five clients. And together, you’ve been able to help change the lives of over one million people by helping them eat healthier, one meal at a time. That’s very impactful, and if I were a prospect, I’d be like, “Wow, how did you do that? I want to know what services that you were able to provide.”

But, you have to set up the time to do it. You have to block out the time in your week to actually compile all of this. Go through your text messages, I’m sure you guys get text messages all the time from happy clients.

Drew McLellan:

Right, so let’s talk about that blocking the time out. So, you and I were talking before we hit the record button that most of the listeners are agency owners, who along with having to sell in the business, they’re serving clients, in many cases, they’re dealing with HR issues or dealing with finance issues or talking to the banker. And you made a comment to me that I want to bring into the recorded part of our conversation about that there’s sort of a way to structure it so that sales is one of the vital priorities for this business owner. So, talk to us a little bit about that.

Michelle Weinstein:

Yeah, the sales is the lifeline of your business, right? And we all started our businesses, our agencies for that freedom, and the time. And now, you’ve got 20 employees, and now you’ve got people requesting time off, you’ve got an HR issue, you’re in labor court with an employee who did something wrong, you hired a horrible 1099. I get it, I’ve been there myself.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Michelle Weinstein:

But, you can’t take focus off the sales. I mean, I dealt with a really, really tough patch. Like, my COO was not doing anything right. I understand how you guys are challenged in this area, but I still had to block out time just for sales and just for reaching out. I didn’t just get into Costco, that took calls and emails and more calls and more emails. So, I just structure it. I always say that whatever you put in your calendar will actually get done. If you don’t put it in your schedule for your week, it won’t get done. And then, a whole week is going to-

Drew McLellan:

Right, someone else will fill that calendar, right?

Michelle Weinstein:

Someone else will.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Michelle Weinstein:

And even today, I block out… I have a podcast too, and just to even bring on really awesome guests, I need to block out at least one to two hours per week to do my outreach. It’s almost like what you guys are doing to get new clients, it’s the exact same thing. But, if I actually don’t put it in my calendar, it won’t happen. Like last night, for example, I spent one hour, and I send everybody, now through April, an email giving them their go live dates, more information, “Hey, can you leave a review?” That’s a sales opportunity for what I’m doing. Whatever I’m saying to you, I’ve done the same, and I understand what it’s like to have 25 employees and deal with problems.

I mean, with my last company, I like to share that you need to get used to being in the unknown. Every day you’re going to have a problem, and that’s what you signed up for. Not only did you sign up for a 24/7 sales job, but you really signed up for, especially with those of you with five to 20, 30 employees, I get it, it’s a lot of work. Maybe there’s an HR manager you can hire, that’s what I wish I would’ve done when I had that many employees.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, I think you’re right. I think that there are challenges that come with… You get the freedom and flexibility of being a business owner, but there are costs to that, and one of them is that… When you block that kind of thing out on your calendar, do you do that a week at a time, do you do that a month at a time? Do you have certain days that are… I don’t take meetings or calls days? How do you do that?

Michelle Weinstein:

For me, if I block out a whole day, that’s a little too much. I think if I were to own a agency, which in a way, what I do is very similar to what all of you do, I would split it up into two days a week. Maybe it’s Wednesday and Friday, maybe it’s Monday and Wednesday, so there’s a gap, so you can do your regular work. I’m sure a lot of you are in some of the client work still too, so you have to manage that. I mean, you are a professional juggler. Pretend you’re at the circus, and you’ve got all these balls you’re juggling. If you’ve got five major ones, you need to schedule the five even though some of them are going to be the unknown, like the piece of fire. That ball with fire is going to get thrown in your juggling [inaudible 00:18:13], right?

I understand that, I dealt with refrigerators breaking overnight and all of us losing all of our food overnight. I mean, I have dealt with every massive problem, and when I say, that’s why it’s so much easier for a service, because you don’t have any of those problems that product based businesses have on the manufacturing side.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Michelle Weinstein:

You’re not manufacturing anything, you just have people problems.

Drew McLellan:

Right, right.

Michelle Weinstein:

You have 50% easier life than any manufacturing company, let me tell you.

Drew McLellan:

See, piece of cake, guys, there you have it.

Michelle Weinstein:

Well, I would break it up into two hour blocks, that’s all I do, and twice a week.

Drew McLellan:

Okay, so four hours. All you have to do is carve out four hours.

Michelle Weinstein:

Well, you have to figure out what’s best for you and how big your business is. Maybe you’re at 0 to 500000 in revenue, maybe four, five, six hours is good because that’s a lot of time for outreach.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Michelle Weinstein:

If you think about it, that is a lot. If you’re a little bit at the top range, maybe you actually have someone on staff that helps you with sales. Not only are you emailing, you’re actually picking up the phone and calling people. Maybe-

Drew McLellan:

What? Using the phone?

Michelle Weinstein:

Yes, the phone. I don’t know for all of you agency owners, but I highly recommend going old school with thank you card. Even for me on my podcast, every guest gets a handwritten thank you card.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah.

Michelle Weinstein:

That blocked out time is to do these sorts of activities, and it’s things that you don’t normally probably do, but for every past client that you’ve worked with, there’s a few referrals in there. But, it’s your job to ask. So, I would even on one hour a week, thank you cards to past clients. Pick up the phone and just call them to say hi. Randomly just call them to say hi, no business. Just, “Hey, what’s going on?” And they’ll be in shock. And if they get to the… Maybe you can ask for a referral if you feel like it’s a good time. There’s a lot of things you can do in a four to six hour period a week that will totally skyrocket your top line revenues.

Drew McLellan:

So, a lot of agency owners I think are pretty good about staying in touch with past clients, but probably they don’t do it in a structured or formal, or keep track way. So, you’re right, having a plan… What I’m hearing you say is that none of this happens by accident. So, most agencies have, they have case studies, they have the brag book part, they’ve got that down, but where they get stuck is when they actually have to start doing the reach out. So, let’s say I have someone on my radar screen that I think would be a good client for my agency, and I’ve got all of social proof that if I ever can get a hold of them or can get in front of them, I can show them that we really could be helpful to them. How do I get that meeting?

Michelle Weinstein:

So, I would first think about where is this prospect client going to be. Are they going to be going to any events this year? Where can you run into them in person?

Drew McLellan:

Okay.

Michelle Weinstein:

I would first think about that, because most people won’t do that. You’re going to think, how do I just get somebody on the phone. I have gotten most of my big opportunities from going to places and “running into people.” It was strategically planned that way.

Drew McLellan:

Right, right.

Michelle Weinstein:

Every time, it works. Most people won’t do it. So, if you’re trying to get to, let’s just say, Justin’s Peanut Butter, and you really want to be the agency that’s works on that whole brand, well, I can tell you right now, he’s going to be at the Expo West in Anaheim, California. That’s how I met him. I showed up and I went there. Think about where the founders-

Drew McLellan:

But, you didn’t know him in advance, right?

Michelle Weinstein:

I did not. I walked up to him and introduced myself.

Drew McLellan:

Okay. So, you walk up and you say, “Hi, I’m Michelle,” and then what?

Michelle Weinstein:

Well, I said, “Hi, I’m Michelle. I know that you’ve had some really great success.” I was in the food business in my past, so that’s why I’m giving this example. “Hi, I’m Michelle. I know that you’ve gotten into Whole Foods, you’ve raised a lot of money in the natural food space. I would be grateful if you could give me a couple of referrals or recommendations because I want to follow in your footsteps. I think you’ve done an amazing job, you created an awesome brand, and I would love five minutes of your time.” And he said, “Oh my God, I would love to help you, no problem.” I got his personal email address.

So, you have to figure out, are you going to get the personal email or the cell phone, pick or choose, can’t have it all. I got his email. He ended up introducing me to about five private equity companies, he ended up donating his products for the last eight years to my nonprofit that I had, and he was now also a guest on my podcast. So now, we’ve had this friendship for the last eight years. It’s more of a business friendship, I don’t know him personally, but he really loves what I’m up to, and I share his products with all my friends that I know, and I talk about it all the time because I love them.

Drew McLellan:

Right.

Michelle Weinstein:

So, for the agency owners, you guys, that’s all you have to do.

Drew McLellan:

Yeah, but so in that case, you were looking for connections and help. What would that conversation have looked like if you wanted to sell… If you were an agency person and you wanted him as a client, and you walked up and said, “Hi, I’m Michelle.” What would you say next?

Michelle Weinstein:

So, if I were trying to work with Justin’s at that time, so obviously he has transformed the brand [crosstalk 00:24:02] but back then, I’ve worked with a lot of other CPG, which means consumer packaged goods company, if that’s your niche. “I’ve worked with a lot of CPG companies, and I have some really amazing ideas that I’d love to run by you. I’ve got one of them right here, and here’s my idea for actually the booth space for you guys for next year. It will accomplish x, y, z, and this is just a gift from me to you. And I would love it if after this conference, we could just talk for about 15, 20 minutes. I’ll go over all of my other ideas too, and maybe I can get the opportunity and we could work together.”

So, I would give him something. A, I’ve done my research on him and the brand, and what could you do to give him something complimentary to show that, whoa, they did their research.

Drew McLellan:

Right, to demonstrate your thinking and that you are clearly invested in wanting them as a client.

Michelle Weinstein:

Correct. You can’t just say, “Oh, well, I think you should meet with me.” But, why? You need to give somebody a reason why and I think that’s really what it comes down to. If you’re looking for new prospects, then I’m sure these people pay you very well a month on monthly retainers. If you’re trying to get a new really important client, you have to deliver something of value complimentary. I’ve done it a lot, I’ve worked with even my designer that helped me with the Pitch Queen brand. All of her future clients, I showed her ways like, why don’t you give… This is an example of a graphic designer, similar service based business, okay?

She created a Facebook cover, a new kind of look and feel to provide to her prospect. “Hey, I just wanted to share this with you. Feel free to use it if you’d like. I just was inspired, I love your brand. I would be honored to work with you, and I’d love 10 minutes of your time.” Here you go, here’s a gift from me to you. So, as an agency owner, maybe you can come up with a list today of five things that you could do that wouldn’t take a lot of your time, because the things that you’re really good at actually don’t take you very much time. Hey, but you donR