Improving systems and processes to complete projects in 2 weeks with Michelle LaBrosse

Hey, before we get to the show, I just wanna remind you that we have created a private Facebook group just for you, our podcast listeners. There are almost 1500 agencies, agency owners, inside that Facebook group every day talking about what’s going on inside their shop, asking for resources, gut checking decisions, talking about everything from pricing to hiring, to biz dev. All kinds of things are happening there. We’re starting conversations. You guys are starting conversations. What I love about it is the community’s coming together and sharing resources, encouraging each other, and just sort of having a safe place to talk about what it’s like to own an agency. So all you have to do is head over to Facebook, search for a Build, a Better, Agency Podcast group, or Build, a Better, Agency Podcast.

And you’ll find the group. You have to answer three questions. If you don’t answer the questions, we can’t let you in. But they’re simple. It’s, do you own an agency or do you work at an agency? And if so, what’s the URL? What are you trying to get out of the group? And will you behave, basically? So come join us. If you haven’t been there for a while, come on back. If you haven’t joined, join into the conversation. I think you’re gonna find it really helpful. All right, let’s get to the show.

It doesn’t matter what kind of agency you run, traditional digital media buying, web dev, PRR brand, whatever your focus, you still need to run a profitable business. The Build, a Better, Agency Podcast, presented by a White Label IQ, will expose you to the best practices that drive growth, client and employee retention and profitability, bringing his 25 plus years of experience as both an agency owner and agency consultant. Please welcome your host, Drew McLellan.

Hey everybody. Drew McLellan here from Agency Management Institute, back with another episode of Build Better Agency. We’re gonna talk about how to get things done faster and more efficiently in today’s episode, which I know is a topic near and dear to all of your hearts. Just wanna remind you, before I tell you a little bit about our guest, that we have a tool on the website that many folks find super helpful. So many of you are trying to decide if you wanna niche down your agency, and if so, what niche makes sense? So a niche could of course, be an industry you specialize in. It could be an audience that you are better at reaching and communicating with than most others. Or it could be a service deliverable.

Even though that niche is gonna be a shorter run because other agencies are gonna jump on, it’s easier for other agencies to jump on board. You know that a few years ago, agencies that specialized in Amazon marketplace were very few and far between, and now there’s a lot of them. So, you know, that kind of niche, maybe you have a three to five year window, and then pretty much it becomes commonplace. But anyway, regardless of how you wanna niche, if you’re trying to figure out what niche makes sense and you want a tool that helps you kind of objectively look at the potential niches that may make sense for your agency, we’ve created kind of a report card that allows you to grade different opportunities against what we think are some critical factors, like how recession proof is it, and how much experience do you already have in the space, and how easy would it be to find the, the right audience.

So we’ve put together this list of criteria and kind of built a little report card in an Excel doc that allows you to grade different potential niches to sort of see where actually your strengths lies. So if that’s of interest to you, you can download it for [email protected] slash niche criteria, all one word. So again, agency management institute.com/niche criteria. So hopefully that’s helpful. Alright, let me tell you a little bit about Michelle. LaBrosse Let, she owns a company called Cheetah Learning, and she has a very interesting background, which I’m gonna invite her to tell you more about.

But she used to own a web dev shop. And so she comes at the idea of project management, and more importantly, project completion from a very interesting angle, both from her experience as an agency owner, but also from some of her other professional experiences. So she’s created a process to get through big projects. And again, it may be that you have to do this more than once, but that you can get through sort of a good chunk of a project or a deliverable in about two weeks. And so she’s written a book about it, and she has defined the process. She does a lot of training. She preps people to take the project management certification and helps them pass that course very quickly and at a much higher success rate than anybody who’s just going in and taking the course or the the test.

So I think you’re gonna find her very interesting in her ideas, a little thought provoking, and maybe poking into some preconceived notions that we all have. So with all of that said, let’s welcome her to the show and learn from her. All right, Michelle, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us,

Drew. I’m very excited what you’re doing with these agencies. I think it’s well needed. I I, I’ll get a little bit into why I think that, and I experience with the work you’re doing. I have, I used to run a web design company.

Ah, okay. So tell everybody a little bit about your background and how you came to have the, this expertise around getting projects done and have developed your own methodology for doing that.

So, I’ve been running businesses since I was 25. I got out of the Air Force in 1987. And it’s interesting, my first 15 years of running a business, I morphed into a bunch of different things. I had a, in 95, I won a bus developing business award in Washington for creating online classes. And I had 300 universities selling my online classes in a company called Wired for Success. But even though I had 300 licensees, I had no business, it was too soon. And I morphed that business into a web design company because I was so early on the game. And I did a web design company for several years, and I got burnt out from it, got divorced, and ended up with a job as a research scientist with my aerospace engineering degree.

And when I was, yeah, so when I was there at this research center, it was a large multinational company. We had 150 people who called themselves project managers in 250 different ways of doing projects. And so what does that mean? It meant every time they started a project, they’d started it differently. They had no consistent processes for doing it. Right. And so this is why I’m real big process wonk. So while I was there, I was doing a lot of project disaster recovery with a really simple process. I had used to relaunch projects, and my boss wanted me to teach a facilitations class. And I said, no, we need a really simple project management class because these folks are doing projects differently every time, and that’s their problem.

Yeah. And she said, no, we already send ’em to a five day class. I’m like, well, how is that helping you? Because, you know, they had such problems. So they got rid of our department, we weren’t very effective, but they kept me and they had me report to the head of the company. And all he really wanted me for was to facilitate some very large meetings. So my big job there was to facilitate four large meetings a year. He didn’t care what I did. So I created my one day approach to doing projects using accelerated learning as my basis. And I taught it all over the research center, and I then I started teaching it for all of the divisions we supported. And it was a really simple process to get your projects done quick.

So I became so successful in that environment. I hurt the researchers brand in a strange way because they were known for research, not training, right. And so they, so they said, well, you know, we’re happy to have you go back to being your research scientist. We have a great department for you to work in. Or you can take your course and you can leave. So obviously I took my course and I left, that was 23 years ago. And I’ve been extolling the virtues of simple processes to complete your projects for a very long time. I wrote this book, cheetah Agile Projects two years ago, because my big focus now is finishing things in two weeks. Huh. And no

Matter how big or what it is,

It’s really about starting correctly. Okay? It’s, you know, you, you wanna create something of usable value for your customer in two weeks, and then you build on it. And especially with software, especially with websites, get something up quick that the customer can use, and then you build on it because the customers you’re in, one of the reasons that website projects take so long is the customer’s requirements keep evolving and the technology keeps evolving, right? Right. So you wanna be responsive and, you know, but you have to get something of value up every two weeks. And that’s the whole idea of cheetah Agile projects is to to, to scope it out correctly and to get it done very quickly.

So it’s interesting, the, usually the biggest, the biggest impediment to project success is the project sponsor, which is often the owner. And so if you’re an owner

And the project sponsor is just whoever your language for whoever’s starting the project,

It’s whoever is authorizing the people to work on the project. Okay. So it’s different than the customer, right? Right. Yeah. The customer is who you’re creating something for. But typically the project sponsor could be the owner of the company.

Okay.

Okay. So I always say is, if you are a cog in the wheel, you’re a cog in the wheel. Right? Right. So if you’re an owner and you’ve inserted yourself in this process, you are part of problem. You might be the entire problem. Yeah.

All right. Yeah, I think as, as you and I were saying before we hit the record button, I think in many agencies, the owner, because so much is on their plate, they’re often, they are often the bottleneck in projects,

Right? So when you have a really simple process, and I’m not talking cumbersome, bureaucratic mumbo jumbo, that just sucks out your will to live of everybody. No, I’m not talking about that type of process. Okay. Right, right. I’m talking about some very standard rules of behavior. All right? Like, one of my rules of behavior is we all agree what done means.

Hmm.

That is such a key, key thing about finishing projects. You know, what done means, right? So before you even begin, there’s very tight consensus about what done means. Now in Agile, especially in software, you have these things called user stories. And the user story, the better defined it is, the better you’re gonna meet the needs of whatever you’re creating for other people. And so, if you can have a really simple process for doing these things, it’s makes, you can be cr prolifically creative. I mean, there’s a, there’s a dichotomy here. The most prolifically creative people I know have the best and the most simple processes that they follow.

And they’re like, they become ingrained ways of working.

So can you give us an example of, not necessarily like a person, but a example of the kind, the reason I’m asking this question I’m stumbling around is a lot of, for a lot of agencies, they struggle with process, process feels restrictive and, you know, that can’t be as creative, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So help us understand how somebody with more process is more creative or more productive.

Alright. I’m gonna say something that if you look at any of that company, if you look at any organization at 30,000 feet, they have processes whether they know it or not. Okay? Yep. Right? They

Have processes. Yeah. Right? They’re, they’re either written down or they’re just tribal knowledge or whatever, right? Right.

Yeah. And your process are either effective or they’re not. So if you’re, say you don’t like processes, you’re just ignoring the reality of your life as you have processes, they just happen to suck, right? Yep. So, you know, it isn’t that you like processor, you don’t like process. It’s like you’re not conscious of what you’re doing. And you know, I mean, like, if, if you want me to just give you one example of just like, these are rules of thumb. Like in my, in my approach with the cheetah agile projects, we have this thing called the daily standup meeting that is no more than 15 minutes. That’s a hard and fast rule every day before the, before you start working on something, right? You meet with the group that’s working together for 15 minutes, no more, no less.

And your job as the boss is to remove impediments, is the number one rule you have, is to remove impediments from people doing the work. You don’t wanna be the impediment, right? Your job is to remove the impediments and to make sure that people have the tools and they have the resources to accomplish what it is they need to accomplish in a very short period of time. And so, if that’s not what you’re doing for 15 minutes at the kickoff of every day with respect to your projects, or you don’t have somebody doing that, then your projects probably aren’t being performed very well.

Yeah. Okay. So let’s talk about getting agreement on what done means. So that sounds incredibly simple, but I suspect it’s not as simple as it sounds. So how do we get that wrong?

Alright, so you don’t have a discussion about it. That’s how you get it wrong. Okay. You don’t even acknowledge that you have different opinions of what done means. And, you know, ’cause the customer has a different definition of done. You might not even know what the customer’s definition of done is. The programmer will have a different definition of done. The, A sponsor will have a, you know, the owner will have a different definition of done. And it’s like, what is done mean? The, you know, the, the, the, the customer wants the website up and working, right? They want a functional website and they want it having all of the features that they need. The programmer might be happy with it working on the test site, right?

Yeah. The, the owner wants the, the work being paid for, right. And right. And so, but the customer’s not gonna pay until all the features and functions are working, right? Right. So you have to have consensus on what does done mean amongst every member of that, of that, of that project. The customer, the programmers, the, you know, the graphic designers, the owner, you know, really, how are we gonna get paid at the end of the day? And, you know, I mean, there’s all types of billing strategies for that. Sure. Which is another reason why I like the two week rule, is because I think it improves cash flow as well. Yeah.

Right.

I mean, I, I can give you some construction examples ’cause those are notorious for done, those people are notorious for not finishing.

So, so let’s talk a little bit about, so let’s say an agency, as you described, they have some rudimentary processes. And as, as I was telling you, most agencies are using something, anything from Excel or a Google product that mimics a spreadsheet to, you know, sophisticated project management tools like workum, aig, or Teamwork or Click Up or Monday or any of those. So I think the listeners would, would say, we have process, but I, I’m guessing that a lot of them clutch at their chest when you say that we can get something done in two weeks. So talk, talk to us about how do you decide what is sort of that minimal viable, something that you can put in a client’s hands in, you know, a a couple weeks?

How do, how do you decide that and how do you get clarity around which done is the priority of done? Because what you said is everybody’s version of done is different. So you have to have a shared vision, I think, I’m assuming, right?

Right. Yeah. You have to have shared idea of done.

And, and is the shared vision of done it just an internal understanding? Or is that with the client as well?

It is totally with the client. Okay. So let’s say that your first deliverable is just a mockup, right? Yep. And you, and you want, and you wanna have the mockup done in two weeks. Okay. Yep. You know, usually what, what is the biggest, what is the biggest bottleneck to developing a mockup in two weeks is usually the customer’s input.

Right? Oftentimes, I think, especially with digital projects for sure,

Right? It’s often the customer’s input. So, you know, basically before you can even commit to two weeks, you have to get the customer’s customer to commit to participating with you during that two week timeframe. And that customer needs to know exactly what is my level of commitment going to be, right? ’cause you cannot just assume the customer knows they for them. Okay? And I’m gonna say this for you, that mockup should be a process that doesn’t deviate. Okay? Because you’ve done thousands of websites, right? You have a lot more experience than this customer who’s just hired you for that customer. This activity is actually a project because it’s a unique effort.

Yeah.

They haven’t done a million websites, right?

They haven’t done a million websites. Right? So if you don’t, do not have a real tight process around every phase of this project, you are doing your customers a major disservice. All right? So let’s say that you hired a real estate agent, and the real estate agent says, well, you know, every house we sell is a little different and United Times. And has, are you gonna think that real estate has a clue of what they’re doing? Right? Right. And this goes the same thing with the web design, is if you do not know very distinctly, Hey, you know, in this mockup process, we need that, we need input from the customer. We need at least 10 hours of somebody’s time, a decision maker’s time, in order for you, us to do an adequate mockup.

And there must be this two week deadline. You need to let the customers know what their responsibility is with your process. Yeah. And that’s why, you know, process also gets to contract. Okay. It also gets to renumeration. It gets to basically, Hey, you know, these were our requirements. This is where you have to participate in this process. And when you get that, then the customer actually respects you more. Another thing is, is you’re taking more seriously.

Right?

Right. So, I mean, if if you’re saying that the process is gonna stymie my creativity, then you’re not a professional because professionals have processes. Yeah. And the more prolifically creative you are, the stronger your process is gonna be. So, I mean, like you look at artists that are just cranking it out, you better believe they’re following a process. And you’re always ask, you know, is it a common question to ask the artist? What’s your creative process? Right. Right. Right. I mean, that’s a common question. So to villainize, the idea of a process is basically to leave yourself in the amateur ranks for a long time.

Yeah. I, I think, I think even though they don’t love it, most agencies will acknowledge they need process. I think two things happen. They make really complicated processes, right? Yeah. And the owner doesn’t follow the process, and therefore it gets derailed. Because then everyone’s like, well, if Drew’s not gonna do it, then I don’t have, you know, I don’t have to do it. So all of a sudden there’s not a lot of respect for the process. So let’s talk a little bit about how does someone, how do you develop, how do you simplify a process?

Well, it’s, you do it a lot. You have to do it a lot. Because when you do it a lot, then it becomes rote and you’re gonna find all types of deficiencies to simplify it. So, you know, I’m gonna say something here, is you have to fall in love with your process. All right? Really?

Okay.

Yes. You have to fall in love with your process. Now, one of the things we’re really well known for in Sheet of Learning and Agile Projects is a new book I wrote. But I’ve, for 23 years, I’ve been teaching people how to pass this extremely difficult exam in four days as a project management professional. And most people spend six months to eight months, and 80% of them fail. But people spend four days with us and they go take the test on the fifth day and 98% pass. We’ve had 80,000 people. We have a process, our students follow our accelerated exam prep process. We are in love with that process. We do never, we never deviate from the process because the process works.

Our students love the process. All our business is word of mouth repeat business. Because of our process. Now, I’ve just been studying Arnold Schwarzenegger, and he has a new book out. Arnold says the same thing, you have to love the reps.

Yeah. Right? Right.

You gotta love the reps, and you have to be in love with your process. If you’re not in love with your process, your process sucks. All right? You gotta go redesign your process, and you have to keep redesigning it until it’s a process that your customers are totally in love with too. If you’re not in love with the pro, if you’re not in love with the process, then you know, you gotta redesign it. And how do you make it simpler? Is you take out all of the non-value added steps. Like what is an adding value here?

The customer, I say from a, from a web project, since that’s your background, can you give us an example of what some non-value steps would be in a typical agency’s web process

Over communicating? So let’s say that I’m creating, you know, the first mockup of the website, the first, the first, you know, how this is what the layout is gonna look up. This is what some of our screens are gonna look out, look like. Who do you have to communicate that to, and who do you have to coordinate and, and get buy-in from? Right? And if you have to get buy-in and over, communicate with too many people, that’s just not value added. Right. And then not to mention is the other people aren’t gonna wanna participate. And you’re gonna be getting, you’re gonna have a lot of lag and slack and waste in that. So, you know, basically we’ll keep it really lean. Yeah. You know, only have the people that are need to be involved. I mean, like, it blows me away when I, I am on, you know, meetups or you know, a Zoom or whatever with somebody who’s designing something for me and there’s five other people, but what are these other five other people doing?

And like, do we really need to waste our time and money on them? Right? So you, that’s like, just take out the non-value added people participation and just keep it really lean. Okay. And so, you know, you, you know, once you’re, once you’re over into coding, you don’t need to have the graphic designers still involved on a day-to-day basis.

So I, I wanna take a break and when we come back, I want to talk a little bit about the process of creating process. So I, I, ’cause I suspect you have a process for creating process. So, and I’m sure it’s simple ’cause you said that that’s what it needs to be. But let’s take a quick break and, and then we’ll come back and we’ll talk about that. Hey, there, just a quick interruption. I wanna make sure that you are aware that you are cordially invited, not just invited, but cordially invited to join our Facebook group, our private Facebook group. All you have to do is go to Facebook and search for Build a Better agency. And you’ll find the Facebook group. You have to answer three quick questions.

You have to put in the agency, URL, you have to talk about what you wanna learn from the group, and you have to promise to behave yourself. And that’s it. And then we’ll let you in, and you can jump into the conversation with over a thousand other agency owners and leaders. And there’s a robust conversation happening every day. People are sharing resources and best practices and discussing everything from work, from home policies, to maternity and paternity policies, to biz dev strategies. So come join us and jump into the conversation. Right? Speaking of conversations, let’s head back. All right, we are back. And Michelle and I are talking about the importance of process and the importance of really slimming down your processes so that they’re simple and they’re manageable, and that everyone feels like they actually add value so that everyone follows them.

So right before the break, I said, let’s talk a little bit about the process of creating process. So let’s say I have, let’s say at AMI, we put out a, a weekly newsletter or a process like that. How do we, how do we dissect the outcome and create a simple process?

You know, I always start backwards from perfect. So you know, what’s the final outcome you want and how are we gonna go backwards to get there? Right? And then you, you list the tasks, right? So you know, what’s, what’s our ideal? And then how are we going to go backwards and create that ideal situation? And then usually, you know, most things will fit 80%. There’s an 80% rule that 80% of the time, this is how the process is gonna work. You design the process for the 80% condition. You don’t design the process to handle the 20% complexity that gets thrown in, right? So you handle the simplest 80%, right? The 20%, okay, this is gonna take a little bit different, and we’re gonna have to address that differently.

But 80% of the time we can follow this simple process. So look at what’s happening routinely. There’s another thing about process, and it has to do with mastery. All right? So a good process will have repeatable results every single time, and it will be robust, which means if Drew does the process, it’s gonna have the same outcome as if I do the process. So somebody with similar skill levels can have the same level of mastery. So the deal is, is when you create that process, you wanna understand at what skill level do we need to have somebody doing this process. So in learning, we do this four levels of learning, awareness, knowledge, skill, and mastery.

So when you’re looking at a process and you’re designing that process, you need to say, okay, so you know, at this level, we’re gonna need this level of skill in this process, and here’s how somebody’s gonna be able to demonstrate that skill level. Because the biggest way to fail is to set somebody who doesn’t have the skills up in a process that stinks. Right? But if you develop a robust process that works for everybody, then they’ll have the built-in skill development as part of that process, right? So, you know, you’re not gonna take somebody Drew off the street and put ’em in charge of your newsletter, right? Yeah. You’re gonna give them a little, you’re gonna give them a little trial, and you’re gonna have them basically take on smaller tasks within that process till they prove they can do that.

And then you’re gonna gradually move ’em along because you don’t wanna set people up to fail. It’s just not a good idea. It’s not good for your business.

Right?

And I think that’s another thing. Let’s talk about micromanagement, right? So if you have a good

Process, what, that never happens in an agency. Okay?

So if you have a good process, process, you can manage the process rather than the people,

Right?

Right. And the people will perform. And, and I say this, and if a, you have a great process, you can take a medioc per person and they can have good performance, right? But if you have a really bad process, you can take a great person and they can have terrible performance, right? So your processes really do matter. They’re the cornerstone of what your business space.

So No, no, no doubt. And you know, I think with remote employees, hybrid workforce agency turnover, you know, one of the, one of the challenges with either complicated or a lack of processes is every time someone leaves, it’s catastrophic. Because they can’t, they can’t sort of reinvigorate and they can’t get back on track as quickly because they have to start in essence over with someone.

Can I talk a little bit about workflow?

Yeah.

Okay. So I am not a fan of tools. All right? I think that people overly rely on somebody else’s process with these tools. And you know, like let’s say that you are using a canned project management software tool. Yep. The only person learning is the one using the tool. I am not a fan of them. The process should be based on the actual work that needs to get done and make it manual until the process is validated and vetted. Don’t just jump to using those tools. I mean, like, you can do a CanBan board or a Kanban board, or pronounce it Kanban, I’m from the east coast, but it’s Kanban, which is to do doing and done.

And you can do that with post-Its on a little, you know, whiteboard, right? Yeah. You don’t need to go use a tool to do that. And you’re probably better off, you know, manipulating those post-Its with your hands that to, to start with, before you jump into some tool, you want to understand what your actual workflow is gonna be, get that process down, and then look into workflow, right? Don’t just jump into workflow. I mean, because then all you’re gonna be doing is learning how to use a tool that somebody else created that may not be right for what your organization is.

Yeah. Well, it’s interesting, I think, I think when you create it in the, in the tool, the tool by default overcomplicates it,

Right?

Yeah. Right. So you’re, I I hear what you’re saying, which is test it first, then if you’re gonna use a tool, fine, now you’re putting the simple process into the tool, and now the tool actually helps you manage the simple process,

Right? Yeah. And, and so I, I, I’m, I mean, like, I keep things really, really simple with my processes, and I don’t need to use a lot of massive tools. I mean, and I get my projects done pretty quick Yeah. With using this two week process because, you know, people know, come hell or high water, she’s finishing this in two weeks and we’re just gonna get on board. Right? Right. Or she’s gonna find some, she’s gonna find somebody else who will get on board.

So I, I suspect that as you were talking about, okay, for example, a web project, you know, one of the, one of the huge, as you probably remember, one of the huge challenges when you’re building a website for a client is getting the content from the client to put on the website, right? Right. Yes. So if an agency, if, if an agency is committed to trying to get a minimum, even a wireframe with some copy and it done in the two weeks, so the clients can look at it, review it, and they can go live or do whatever they’re, they’re gonna do on the back end, and the client agrees on the front end. Yep. I agree to the process. But when the client’s missing deadlines, how do you recommend that the agency get the client back on track?

Well, I think it’s, it is the contract upfront what’s expected of the client. And there has to be, there has to be monetary compensation, there has to be monetary penalties. I mean,

Okay, so, so if we don’t get this, then the website’s more expensive or something else happens.

Yeah. You know, I mean, like, and, and you have to have a key fo key person. I mean, you have to not just wanna back up a couple people, right? It’s like, who is responsible for getting us the con the content? Because this is a critical success factor for your project. I mean Right. We can’t move forward unless we have the content. So I, I hear you on that. I mean, like, I have been a big bottleneck in web design projects before, so I wasn’t properly managed. You have to manage the customer. Right. And the customer, the content has to be a part, a big part of getting it. I mean, you can’t just say, oh, the customer didn’t give it to me. Well, you didn’t require it in the contract. It has to be upfront. And the con the customer needs to know there’s some fin financial ramifications for this not happening.

There has to be penalties. Okay. Because PE people respond, I always say that people do what’s being measured and they will, they people will improve what’s being measured and they’ll do what they’re paying for, right? Yep. So if they’re paying for, to get, if they’re paying to get you content, they will get you the content.

Yeah.

And it’s how you write up the contract. The contract with the customer.

Yeah. That’s a good point. So let’s talk a little bit about, so for an agency owner that is, as we talked about, often the bottleneck in a pro in a project or a process, other than simplifying the process, what, what can we do as leaders and owners to try and be more respectful of the process? Because I, I think one of the things that happens is, you know, a agency owners are, are famous for, you know, the idea of the month or the plan of the month, whatever it is. I read a book and we’re gonna do this, or I saw TED talk and we’re gonna do that, or you know what, we’ve bought this new software and we’re gonna do this thing.

And so I think agency employees have been sort of trained to go, well, we’re gonna sort of slow play this for a little bit and see how committed Drew is to this. ’cause you know, last week it was this, and two weeks ago it was that. So I think, I think we have a credibility problem sometimes in our own agencies because we get, because we’re visionary and we get all these ideas and we’re excited about all of them. We’re not great at implementing all of them for a long haul. So if I know that, if I know that I have to be more true to the process and the projects that I am responsible for, how do I show up differently or better?

Because otherwise what happens is nobody follows the system or process. Right? Because they’re like, well if Drew’s not gonna do it, then clearly I don’t have to do it either. Right?

Okay. So do you do do the two week rule. The two week rule is you’re gonna do a two week project to create the process or whatever it is your visionary brainstorm of the moment, right? I’m gonna spend two weeks every day working on something related to this visionary thing. I might have a, you know, one or two people working on my visionary brainchild with me, right. We call ’em special projects. Right? Right, right.

Everybody,

Everybody knows special you, you, you can’t, the boss can’t find a place for you. You get to work special projects before you’re out the door. But anyways, you take two weeks and you work on a special project, which is whatever the process, you’re doing this, you know, you’re testing out an idea before you roll it out industry, right. You know, throughout your agency. And you take two weeks and if thing still has legs in two weeks, although it might be something worth diving into a little more. Yeah. Yeah. But before you expose, you know, the rest of your staff to your latest brainstorm, spend two weeks on it and see how it goes and do an actual project on it.

You know, I mean, hey, I wanna create a process for X, y, z. I’m gonna take two weeks to create that process to see how it goes, to see if it’s still gonna go, it’s still gonna work. And it’s interesting, when I was a research scientist, I used to do these things called information kaizen events with the web design team at the research center. And for two weeks we would tackle a process issue within their web design thing, and we could see if we could make changes to that process. And at the end of two weeks, we had a new process. So the two week thing worked,

Or you realized there was something else going on, there’s

Something else going on. Yeah. But usually we had a really good, like, we completely changed some a way the web design team was working with accounting at one time. That was pretty fascinating. But you know, we had like five people sequestered just working on this for two weeks to create the process. So creating a process in a, you know, whatever your brainstorm idea is over two weeks, if it doesn’t have legs, it dies. Right? Right. You stop working on it. But if it does, it then takes on a life of its own. And two weeks is a good enough fair shake, right? Yeah. To give, to give whatever latest TED talk you heard about or Yeah. Right. Before you spend any money, I have this other rule for every dollar I’m gonna spend, I have to take a minute to think about it.

Yeah. Right, right.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So, you know, oh, you know, I wanna spend $10,000 on this idea, so I better spend 10,000 minutes contemplating whether or not I really wanna spend $10,000 on this idea.

Yeah. Yeah. So as, as, as you’re talking and you’re talking about, look, you gotta spend two weeks developing the process. I am, I’m sure agency owners were going look at my calendar. I don’t, I don’t have the time. So let’s talk a little bit about distractions, because you know, agency owners are constantly being distracted. They don’t have 15 minutes of concentrated thinking time without getting a slack pinging or somebody knocking on their door or they’re getting a text message or, you know, there’s constant distractions and interruptions. So let’s talk a little bit about managing those

Time boxing.

Okay.

Time boxing is the number one way to manage those distractions. So, you know, my daughter calls this sustained silent reading. She runs the mobile apps for New York Times. Hmm. And so it is a second grader thing, right. It was sustained silent reading. We’re gonna have some SSR time. And so she’s the manager of all these mobile app people and she’s like, she has SSR time, SSSR time. We’re all taking an hour for SSR time. And basically that’s, nobody communicates, right? Right. It’s time boxing. Yeah. Right. So, you know, I mean, we did it in second grade, right? We, we all have the capability.

If we can do it, then we might be able to master it now. So do you recommend that, so one of the things we talk about is that agency owners need to have a half day to a day that is just theirs without interruption to get work done.

That’s just unrealistic.

No, it, a lot of agency owners take two half days in a week. And so, you know, they’ll go from eight to noon and they are heads down getting work done, they’re doing new biz, they’re doing whatever. But what I was gonna ask you is yeah. For the sustained silent reading, are you recommending that the entire agency honors that same hour?

Well, you know, that’s not a bad idea if it could happen. Okay. But four hours. Okay. So this is one of the things