Agencies should get 70%+ of their new net revenue from referrals but that does not mean you shouldn’t have a concerted new business effort as well. When you count on referrals and referrals alone, you are beholden to accept whatever client walks in the door. They might be too small, too big, out of your industry expertise or a jerk. You need to be cultivating targeted leads and opportunities so you can be choosy on the referral side.

My podcast guest Alex Berman believes that he and his team at Experiment27 have cracked the code for agency biz dev efforts. They’ve experimented with many different lead generation channels (cold calling/emailing, directories and sponsorships, agency partnerships, meet-ups and in-person events) to help put more wins in the agency’s new business column.

Hear what Alex and his team are doing for their clients and explore if you think the tactics might work for you as well.

  • The massive opportunity outbound marketing provides for agencies
  • How to know if your marketing strategy is the right marketing strategy
  • What to measure with your tracking software to make sure your leads are working
  • The best lead generation channels for capturing leads
  • Tailoring cold calls to the target
  • Why cold emails need to be short and to the point
  • Partnering with other agencies to take on overflow work/give away your overflow work
  • How to capture leads at meetups/in-person events
  • Making yourself memorable by connecting people
  • How to do the follow-up right (it differs if you’ve actually met them or not)
  • Why you need to set a KPI

Alex Berman is the founder and SVP of Operations of a marketing and lead generation firm Experiment27. Alex is responsible for generating over $2.5 million in B2B sales and over $50 million in leads for his clients. He also creates weekly videos to help agency owners grow their businesses and bring in more revenue teaching them how to optimize B2B sales cycles and put inbound marketing strategies in place.

Alex was also Chief Marketing Sumo at InspireBeats, a company valued at over $100 million, former Director of Marketing at three time INC 5000 company Dom & Tom. He is also a network video partner for Entrepreneur Magazine.

To listen – you can visit the Build A Better Agency site (https://agencymanagementinstitute.com/alex-berman/) and grab either the iTunes or Stitcher files or just listen to it from the web.

If you’d rather just read the conversation, the transcript is below:

Table of Contents (Jump Straight to It!)

  1. Where Agencies Make the Biggest Mistakes when Chasing New Business
  2. How to Know if You Have the Right Marketing Strategy
  3. How Many Lead Generation Channels Should You Be Running?
  4. Alex’s Top 3 Lead Generation Channels
  5. What this Outbound Email Model Looks Like
  6. How to Make Biz Dev a Daily Priority
  7. Some of the No-Fail Lead Generation Channels for Agencies
  8. Why You Need to Connect with Prospects Before Trying to Sell Them
  9. The Mistakes Agencies Make with their Lead Generation Channels
  10. Why an Agency Wouldn’t Use these Lead Gen Tactics
  11. Immediate Action Steps for Improving Your Own Biz Dev

Drew McLellan: Hey, everybody. Drew McLellan here with another episode of Build a Better Agency. It is early in the year, and I am hoping that many of you are thinking about sales. We think about that all throughout the year, but I think particularly as the new year comes by, we start sort of recommitting to the marketing and sales for our agency.

We’ve set new goals, and we’re chasing after those goals, and that’s why I think today’s guest is going to be really, really relevant for all of you, so let me tell you a little bit about him, and then we’re going to jump right into the conversation.

So Alex Berman is the founder and senior vice president of operations at a marketing and lead generation firm called Experiment27. He is responsible for generating over 2.5 million in B2B sales and over 50 million in leads for his clients. They also create some great weekly videos to help agency owners grow their business and bring in more revenue by teaching them how to optimize B2B sales cycles and put inbound marketing strategies in place, and we’ll dig into all of that.

Alex was also the Chief Marketing Sumo at InspireBeats, a company valued at over $100 million, and has served as the former Director of Marketing at three-time Inc. 5000 company Dom & Tom. He’s also a network video partner for Entrepreneur Magazine, so Alex, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.

Alex Berman: Thanks for having me, Drew.

 

Where Agencies Make the Biggest Mistakes when Chasing New Business

Drew McLellan: So you talk new business and Biz Dev all day with agency folks. Tell me, where do you think the biggest mistakes lie in the way that they pursue opportunity?

Alex Berman: So the biggest mistake, and it wasn’t really obvious until I started talking to a lot of agency founders, is, most of them don’t have a solid outbound strategy, so at least like for marketing agencies, maybe they do, but my experience is iOS, Android, and then design agencies.

Most of them, they’ll have a sales team, but the sales team is only handling inbound leads or doing account management, so selling and then working on the accounts.  So I think there’s a huge opportunity just by adding an outbound channel, and then looking through inbound. That’s the biggest blind spot that I think most agencies have.

Drew McLellan: Well, my experience has been a lot of agency owners, when you talk about Biz Dev, their natural response is, “Well, we get so much work by referral, we don’t need anything,” but the truth is, then, what that means is whatever comes through the door, you have to take, whether it’s a good fit or not.

Alex Berman: Right, and it’s cool to leverage inbound.

Drew McLellan: Right.

Alex Berman: Right? There are some agencies, I was just talking to an agency out in Boston that grew to $20 million just on referrals, and they weren’t dealing with marketing, and they didn’t even have a CMO or anything like that, which it’s amazing that that’s possible, but there are clients … The reason a lot of people get into agency work is to do the work they want to do.

Drew McLellan: Right.

Alex Berman: Right? So it’s kind of the exact opposite to then sit back and wait for people to come to them.

Drew McLellan: Right.

Alex Berman: You should be out there pursuing the dream type of projects, the projects that will really get your teams going.

 

How to Know if You Have the Right Marketing Strategy

Drew McLellan: Absolutely, those sweet spot clients that you love working for that love the work that you do for them. Yeah, absolutely, so if there’s an agency owner who’s listening now and saying, “Oh, that’s not me. I have not said to Drew,” which they all have said, “I have not said to Drew the cobbler’s children have no shoes. We have a marketing strategy.”

How do they know if it’s the right marketing strategy?

Alex Berman: How do you know if it’s the right marketing strategy?

Drew McLellan: Yeah.

Alex Berman: You have to look at … I mean, basically, you have to look at where you want to be as a company, right? Most agencies, I know on one of the other episodes of this podcast, you said most agencies get about 70% of their deal flow through referrals. I’ve seen about the same thing, so if you’re getting more than 70%, let’s say you’re getting 100% of your deals through referrals, and you’re not doing any networking or any outbound at all, I mean, it’s definitely a good time to look at it.

If you feel like you can grow your business at all, and you feel boxed in at all by the number of leads you’re getting … So basically, if you’re not getting way more leads than you can deal with I’d say it’s time to look into your marketing.

Drew McLellan: And so if they have a strategy, how do they assess its appropriateness or if it’s right for what they’re trying to get to? So, okay, let’s say I have a clear idea of where I want my agency to be, and one year, three years, 10 years, and I have what I believe is a marketing or Biz Dev strategy, how do I make sure that those two things match up?

Alex Berman: Okay, so if you’re a marketing company, I’m assuming that you’ve got Google Analytics set up, maybe you have conversion tracking and all this stuff, or actually, maybe I’ll cover that real quick.

So first, as a baseline, you want to make sure you have some kind of tracking software on your site that measures the number of contacts that are coming in, whether that’s HubSpot or even Google Analytics has good contact tracking.

So the piece of data that you want to look at is the source and then, which sources are converting the most, so when I sit down with an agency, the first thing I always do is dig into their analytics, and I’ll go back as long as the website’s been around, so whether it’s like two years old or three years old or eight years old or whatever, I’ll pull it up, and I’ll pull up conversions for that entire timeline, and the one thing that I like to look for is, what are the sites that have a very high time on site, but not a high volume of people?

And a good example of this is when I was CMO, when I was Director of Marketing at Dom & Tom, I reviewed their analytics, and I found that Quora, the question and answer site Quora had generated two leads over the course of like two years, right? Like nothing, but of those leads, there was only a total of maybe it was like 10 pieces of traffic, so something on Quora drove 10 visitors, and two of them converted.

That’s a 20% conversion rate, so based on that, I went out there, and we leveraged Quora. We read a whole bunch of Quora answers, did a whole breakdown, and we were able to drive that number up. After 30 days we were getting 40 inbound leads a month just from Quora based on just looking at your analytics, seeing what those underperforming channels are, or those gold mines, and then leveraging those channels.

 

How Many Lead Generation Channels Should You Be Running?

Drew McLellan: Okay, and how many lead generation channels for an agency, typically, how many channels does it make sense for them to be really tracking and really having an active strategy to drive more people to and through?

Alex Berman: So I think it depends on your bandwidth. I know when I was building up Experiment27, I tackled two channels at the same time, so cold email outreach was my go-to strategy. That’s the one that we use to get most of our clients to this day, but at the same time, I was doing cold email. I was doing YouTube and content, and that also generated leads, so that’s the type of strategy you can work at the same time. Right?

Because when you’re sending outbound emails, you have that blocked out, then you’ve got like some dead time, so in that dead time, I would film videos, and then by the time the videos were done, people had responded to the emails. So I’d say you can do one or two at the same time, prove them out. Normally it takes … Well, it depends on the channel. We can actually break down … I’ve actually found eight channels that almost always work for increasing agency leads, but each channel has a different amount of time to ramp up.

Usually it’s about 90 days per channel so I would try something for between 60 and 90 days. If it’s not working, drop it. Otherwise, once that’s set up in 90 days, then you can start looking at other channels. You can outsource that channel.

 

Alex’s Top 3 Lead Generation Channels

Drew McLellan: Okay, so of the eight lead gen channels that you find are most reliable, tell us about the top two or three.

Alex Berman: Sure, so the number one is cold outreach and cold calling, and I didn’t actually have cold calling as part of this until about a month ago, but we started leveraging cold calling for our clients.

And the thing that really blew me away was, we were going out towards the Fortune 500, so big companies, and I have this woman on our team named Latisha, and she was cold calling these companies using a strategy we can talk about if you want, and she booked six enterprise meetings in six days with like Morgan Stanley, Publix, and Adidas, like Dunkin’ Donuts, like these giant companies.

Six of these big meetings in six days, which really sold me on cold calling. So before that, I was totally against it. I was like, “All right, just do cold email outreach,” so now that’s one big channel. It’s the number one.

Then the number two is actually directories and sponsorships, so sites like, getting on sites like Awards, or TheyMakeApps, which is dead now, or dying. Clutch.co is a big one, or leveraging Behance and Dribbble.

All of those directories and sponsoring your way to the top, that’s just the second large channel, and that’s actually, if you were going to run two channels concurrently, I’d recommend doing directories and sponsorships, because that’s more of a quicker play. Your leads are going to shoot up immediately, because you’re basically paying for the most sponsorships while outreach has a chance to ramp up.

Drew McLellan: So the listeners will kill me if I don’t circle back around and say, “Yes, I do want to hear about the strategy that allowed your employee to land six enterprise meetings with the likes of Morgan Stanley and Publix,” so yes, tell us about that.

Alex Berman: Sure, so the way that most people do cold calling is, especially agencies, if you’ve ever … Have you ever gotten a cold call from like a random agency?

Drew McLellan: No, probably not, because most agencies don’t target other agencies, but I certainly have talked to other agencies who either have tried cold calling and it’s not gone well, or, like you, like you said, before last week, you were, “No, we’re not doing that.” Their attitude, I think, is that that won’t work.

Alex Berman: Yeah, and so the thing is, with actually all of these lead generation channels, most people think they won’t work because the initial gut reaction that agency founders have, like the initial assumption, is almost always the same, and it’s always wrong for, actually almost for every one of these channels.

So the initial assumption that I found with agency founders when they make cold calls is, “Hey, I’m going to call these guys, and I’m going to pitch what I do as an agency, so I’ll call you and I’ll say, ‘Hey, I do iOS and web development, and if you have any work, let me know,'” basically.

Drew McLellan: Right.

Alex Berman: Or they’ll send cold emails with a bunch of bullet points that just outline stuff. What I found actually works for the Fortune 500 is, Latisha will go and first will make a list of the type of companies we want. We’ll niche it down by industry, so for instance, one of our clients right now, Dom & Tom’s still a client of ours, so we’re doing cold emailing for them right now, and one of their case studies, their strongest case study, is in the university space. It’s this project for University of Oklahoma.

They redid the student onboarding process, and they built this custom application, and now their student retention rate is up, and they’ve got these analytics and things to back it up, so what we did is, we made a list of the top universities. There was about 408 or something like that in the United States, and now Latisha is going in depth on each one of these universities. Right? She’s researching sports teams. She’s researching goals for the year, and the whole …

Basically, she’s trying to create a picture of each one of these agencies, and then when she cold calls, the way she opens the call is saying something like, “Hey, I’ve been researching your goals for 2017. I realize you might be working on new student retention because of this press release. Do you have a couple minutes to talk? I’m with Dom & Tom. We just built an app for University of Oklahoma that’s increased their client, their new student happiness, or new student retention, by 10%.”

And that’s the kind of thing that, if it is something they’re actually working on, they’ll listen to. Right? Because you’re coming with a specific idea rather than just saying, “Hey, we do iOS development.”

Drew McLellan: Right, right. Okay, so we’ve got the cold calling, and that makes perfect sense to do that. How long does it take her to do that research per target?

Alex Berman: So it really depends. I try not to have her spend more than like 10 minutes on each target.

Drew McLellan: Okay.

Alex Berman: Unless you’re doing full account-based sales, so like for the universities, since there’s 408 of them, the best way to do it is to break down each one and try to do, yeah, like 10 minutes of research on each one, then try to cold call them. If you get through, you can try the pitch. Right? Because you’ve got the research.

If you don’t get through, or if they’re not opening the emails, then it’s worth doing another round, so doing another 10 minutes on each that hasn’t responded or hasn’t opened the email, and finding some other hook, and wondering like, “Hey, is there some other contact that would be better? Is there a different part of the university I should go with? Should I not pitch student retention? Should I talk about sports? Where are the budgets?”

So basically, it’s kind of like a Lean or like an Agile model, right? So you’ll spend as little amount of time as possible.

Then you’ll try to reach out to all of them to get the low-hanging fruit. Then the ones that don’t respond, that’s when you start doing more and more research, because basically, you don’t want to spend more time than you have to.

 

What this Outbound Email Model Looks Like

Drew McLellan: Yeah, absolutely, and so is your outbound email model kind of the same, where it’s, you start with some research, you open the email with something specific that you know that is on top of mind for them? And then talk about how you’ve helped someone else do that.

Alex Berman: Yeah. Yeah, basically, so the way that I like to send cold emails, I always like to have a pretty generic subject line, because it gets them to open, so like “Question about University of Oklahoma,” or “About University of Oklahoma and Dom & Tom,” just like something very generic that’s going to get them to open so they actually see the email. And then it’ll say something like, “Hey, Mark. Obviously, a huge fan of the Sooners. Congrats on the game.” Like something very customized to their university.

Drew McLellan: Right, right, right. Yeah.

Alex Berman: Just like a sentence or so. The actual email I try to keep under five sentences total, and then you move into something like this, like, “My name’s Tom. I’m the founder at Dom & Tom. We do iOS development and digital strategy for universities, so we actually just built an app for University of Oklahoma that has increased their student happiness by 10%.” Looking at, let’s say it’s Caltech, “Looking at Caltech’s goals for the year, it seems like that might be something you’d be interested in improving as well,” and then, “I’d love to have a quick chat and go over what we did and see if there’s any value. Does that sound interesting? If so, I can send over a couple times. Thanks. Tom.”

Right, so it’s very … The only thing that really needs to be customized is that first sentence, but if you noticed, the whole email is also very university-specific so that goes back to the first point about digging in and figuring out a case study that you want to clone in different industries. Right?

Because if you send out … The way I like to look at it is, if you have somebody cold calling or cold emailing like the Fortune 500, just in general, you’re going to hit … There are so many industries you’re hitting, right? Like 20, 30 different industries, so each one of those is going to have a different customer … They’re going to have just different needs. They’re going to have a different vocabulary they use.

Drew McLellan: Right.

Alex Berman: So if you just target based on one industry, you can write an email that looks super customized, but it’s really just a template, and it’s niched down, so that’s why we’re only targeting universities with this batch, and then the other, we’ve got a couple other ones going on, one for financial institutions, one for healthcare, things like that.

Drew McLellan: Well, it’s interesting when you say the email should be no more than five sentences, because I think that’s something that agencies struggle with, so even though it’s the exact same advice they give their clients, “Brevity, brevity, brevity,” they’re not great at that themselves. They want to sort of tell the whole story, and your example is a great reminder that all you’re trying to do is to get to the next step, and the next step is to have some sort of exchange.

Alex Berman: Okay, so, what you know through working with agencies, based on what you know, why do you think that is? So why does a marketing agency who has built out marketing strategies over and over again probably in B2B for dozens, or even hundreds, of clients, why can’t they see that their own marketing is not up to par?

Drew McLellan: Well, I think it could be a couple things. One, I think oftentimes they try and get it done really fast. They don’t give it the attention it needs. Number two, a lot of times they shove it down to a junior person because all their senior people are busy taking care of clients, so you don’t have the level of experience. I think some of it, too, is, they suffer from the same human foibles that their clients do, which is, “I’m afraid this is my only shot at talking to them, so I have to tell them the whole story,” and I also just think in general, it’s just like their clients need to hire an agency to do marketing. I think it’s difficult for agencies to clearly see the outside of the bottle from inside the bottle, right?

Alex Berman: Yeah, and I think we’re on the same page there.

Drew McLellan: Yeah.

Alex Berman: There’s a reason … I think the first point and the last point you made are key, right? It’s not that clients don’t value marketing or they’re not good … It’s not that they’re not good at marketing or they don’t know what to do. It’s the amount of time that they’re willing to invest in their own marketing pales in comparison to the amount of time that they’re investing in clients’ marketing.

Drew McLellan: Absolutely.

Alex Berman: The way that I’ve gotten around that at Experiment27 is hiring dedicated people, like I’ve got a guy, and his only job is to do marketing for us, so he works on the YouTube channel. He reaches out to podcasters. He tries to get us on the front page of Reddit. He does cold emailing for, not for Experiment27, but we have a sales team for that, so having dedicated people and taking those resources and investing them in yourself, or hiring a consultant to point out the flaws, is hugely important.

Drew McLellan: Yeah.

Alex Berman: Actually, I think that’s one of the main values that we offer at Experiment27. Yeah, we do the execution, right? Like we’ll go through, and we’ll do all these marketing and lead generation channels for agencies, but the actual biggest … The biggest value is that initial month’s review, right?

Because one of the things we do is, we’ll look through the analytics, right? We’ll look through all the cold emails that you’re sending and point out the flaws. Where are your partnerships breaking down, or what directories are you not leveraging?

And one of the biggest value adds is, if nobody’s running marketing, it’s usually on the head of the founder, who’s got no time, so yeah, if you hire a consultant, even someone like you, if you hire, like even if someone hires a consultant like you or like me to look through that, the value’s going to be tremendous.

 

How to Make Biz Dev a Daily Priority

Drew McLellan: Yeah. I think the challenge is, for a lot of agencies, is, they cycle through, right? So they are a little light on work, and so they scramble and do a bunch of new business activity. They get a client or two, and they’re so busy servicing that client that they sort of drop the new business activity, and I think one of the biggest challenges for agencies is, how do you … Again, it’s ironic, because it’s exactly what they talk to their clients about, but how do you make marketing and Biz Dev something that happens every day, no matter what else is happening that day?

Alex Berman: Yeah, and part of it is implementing the systems. The easiest way, I’ve found, from a founder’s point of view, to actually make sure stuff gets done is to hire people to do it.

Drew McLellan: Yeah. Right.

Alex Berman: Like I know I’m not going to sit down and send 40 cold emails a day, right? I’ve tried it in the past. I used to do that when we were first starting out, and it sucks to send cold emails. It’s a trudge, but there are people that love doing it. Our two salespeople love sending cold emails. You know?

Drew McLellan: Yeah.

Alex Berman: The person in charge of sending client outreach, he sends it, so yeah, hiring people and putting them in those roles … It’s the same thing that you’d do if you wanted to have a design project done. You’d hire a designer. You wouldn’t, as the founder, do the work yourself unless you’re really just starting out, and you haven’t stepped outside the business yet.

 

Some of the No-Fail Lead Generation Channels for Agencies

Drew McLellan: Yeah, absolutely. So I want to dig into some of the other channels that you alluded to early in our conversation, so let’s do that, but first, let’s take a quick break.

All right, we are back with Alex Berman, and Alex, you had mentioned that there are eight, almost, cannot-fail channels for agency new business. We talked about two, so let’s, tell us about a couple others.

Alex Berman: Sure, so the other one, we can go in order by what I’ve seen in terms of ROI.

Drew McLellan: Great.

Alex Berman: So the first one was outreach. Second one was directories. The third one is agency partnerships, and this is a two-sided one, right? Because some agencies will say, “Hey, yeah, we do partnerships,” and they go south or things like that, so there’s two sides to agency partnerships.

One is reaching out to larger agencies that charge about double your hourly rate to send you overflow work, and the other side of agency partnerships is reaching out to smaller agencies that charge less than half of what you charge to send your overflow work to them, and this, that lower side of agency partners is actually one of the quickest ways to … If you feel like you have too much work, or you have too much busy work, one of the quickest ways to get that off your plate and on to another company so that you can focus on some other stuff in your business.

Drew McLellan: So what does that conversation look like, on both ends? So if I’m reaching out to a larger agency, and I’m looking for their overflow, which I have several agencies inside the AMI family that that’s what they do, they think of really big box agencies, and they are their sort of go-to for project work, so what does that initial conversation look like, and who do you … If I’m the smaller agency, and I’m reaching out to the larger agency, who in that larger agency should I reach out to?

Alex Berman: So I found that cold email is actually a really good way to do this. Cold calling also will work, but cold emails is fine, and you could actually … You don’t even have to customize the email very much. You just have to make sure that it’s not too long, so what I found is an email about five sentences long, similar to the other one, and then the person to reach out to, I try to reach out to about three people.

If it’s a gigantic agency, I might reach out to a director of projects or a director of project management. Otherwise, maybe director of client services, or if they have a director of partnerships, so a lot of these bigger agencies do actually have a director of partnerships, which is probably why the cold emails work so well.

Drew McLellan: Right.

Alex Berman: Like they have budget, or they have projects, and they have a person whose only job is to test out agencies with small projects, so if you hit those, if you hit those type of people, those director of partnerships people, up, you can quickly get some new business in the door that way.

And it’s a short email, so like, “Hey, question about WPP,” for instance, would be like a good subject line. “Hey, Mike. Huge fan of WPP. Love the work you did on the Power Rangers campaign,” or whatever, just a specific campaign, just to show that you’ve done some research.

Drew McLellan: A little bit of homework, right.

Alex Berman: Yeah. Now, I’ll use Dom & Tom as an example again. “So my name’s Tom. I’m the founder of Dom & Tom, a 50-person … ” Actually, there are 98 people, “98-person mobile app development company in Chicago. We’ve worked with Tyson, Power Rangers,” list out two or three projects. “Would you be open to discussing partnerships? We’re vetting some new agency partners, and our in-house team could really add some value to WPP.” It’s just that simple, right?

Drew McLellan: Right, right.

Alex Berman: That simple and that open.

Drew McLellan: Right.

Alex Berman: Because the thing is, with agency partners, you don’t really have to play around too much, right? Because you’re plugging into a system that already accepts partnerships, and as long as you’re not … I don’t know how to phrase this correctly, but as long as you’re not an agency from a country that they don’t work with you’re going to at least get a quick call.

Drew McLellan: Okay, so that’s a great channel. What’s channel number four for you?

Alex Berman: Channel number four is meet-ups and in-person events, so there are … Actually, when I was at Dom & Tom before I was Director of Marketing over there, I was a salesman, and I was the top salesman in my first year there, beating out both founders and the Director of Sales and the entire sales team. And my secret for that was, I had a monthly meet-up for brand and marketing managers in New York City, and like 60 to 70 people would come up, and we would generate about $100,000 in new business just from those meet-ups, and nobody else on the team would ever come on over, stop by.

Drew McLellan: So basically, you were hosting a meet-up of a group of people who would want to network with each other, and you were just there as the conduit.

Alex Berman: Yeah, exactly, and it wasn’t like a fancy meet-up with like speeches or anything. It was, I didn’t even reserve a bar space. It was just an open invite. “First Monday of every month, come by. We’ll all have drinks, and we’ll just network with each other.” Yeah, it was just straight-up networking for brand and marketing managers.

Drew McLellan: And in that, your role was really just to chat, chat, love your hat, work the room, while those people were there, right?

Alex Berman: Exactly, and yeah, what I would do is, I’d just get like a drink, and I’d just walk around from group to group and try to figure out why everyone was there, make sure they’re all having a good time, and, yeah, just facilitate the conversations.

When I found somebody who was interested, I would talk to them and basically ask them about their business. The goal of the in-person events is, well, there’s two different types of in-person events. We’ll cover the second one in a second, but with the meet-ups, the goal is not to sell immediately.

It’s to get their business card, and the reason … That sounds super soft, right? Like, “Oh, just get their business card,” but what I found is, even just in a normal networking scenario, if somebody hands you their business card, almost 100% of the time, I would say 99.999% of the time, everyone that they’re handing their business card out, nobody is going to actually email them the next day to follow up, so if you’re the one person the next day, I used to just come in and just have a stack of business cards, and I would actually email each