The “why” mindset strategy for better agency communication with Linda Perry

Hey, before we get to the show, I just wanna remind you that we have created a private Facebook group just for you, our podcast listeners. There are almost 1500 agencies, agency owners, inside that Facebook group every day talking about what’s going on inside their shop, asking for resources, gut checking decisions, talking about everything from pricing to hiring, to biz dev. All kinds of things are happening there. We’re starting conversations. You guys are starting conversations. What I love about it is the community’s coming together and sharing resources, encouraging each other, and just sort of having a safe place to talk about what it’s like to own an agency. So all you have to do is head over to Facebook, search for a Build, a Better, Agency Podcast Group, or Build, a Better, Agency Podcast, and you’ll find the group.

You have to answer three questions. If you don’t answer the questions, we can’t let you in. But they’re simple. It’s, do you own an agency or do you work at an agency? And if so, what’s the U R L? What are you trying to get out of the group? And will you behave, basically? So come join us. If you haven’t been there for a while, come on back. If you haven’t joined, join in to the conversation. I think you’re gonna find it really helpful. All right, let’s get to the show.

Welcome to the Agency Management Institute community, where you’ll learn how to grow and scale your business, attract and retain the best talent, make more money, and keep more of the money you make. The Build a Better Agency Podcast, presented by a White Label IQ is packed with insights on how small to mid-size agencies are getting things done, bringing his 25 years of experience as both an agency owner and agency consultant. Please welcome your host, Drew McLellan.

Hey everybody. Drew McLellan here with another episode of Build a Better Agency. Super glad you are here with us. I think you’re gonna find this topic fascinating, both for yourself and for your team. So I’m excited to introduce you to our guest and dig right into that. But before I do that, I want to remind you two things. Number one, there are a lot of lively conversations going on in the podcast Facebook group. So if you’re not a member of that Facebook group, you really ought to come join us. Just go to Facebook, search for Build a Better agency. It’s gonna ask you three questions. What’s the U r L of your agency? What? What do you wanna learn there? What do you want to get from the group? And will you be nice? That’s it. You have to answer the questions, or I won’t let you in.

We do vet everybody to make sure that it’s only agency owners and leaders, and it’s not a bunch of people trying to sell things to agency folks. So you’ve gotta answer the questions. But anyway, lots of lively conversations and a lot of conversations around niching. As always, it’s a hot topic. How do you niche? Should you niche? What’s too narrow of a niche? All of those kind of things. So I wanna remind you about a tool that we put together, I don’t know, a year or two ago, right after Steven and I wrote Sell With Authority. And so it’s basically, think of it as a report card where you can evaluate different potential niches against what we believe are the criteria for what makes a good niche.

So there’s a grid, right? And down the left side, it’s all these different criteria that we think make a niche strong for an agency. And along the top, you can list five or six different niches. And basically you give a letter grade. So a four is an A, A three is a B, et cetera, for each. So let’s say it’s, do I want to be a pharma agency for, you know, pharma products for women over 50? That would be one of the columns. And then you would grade, you would answer a bunch of questions about that particular niche in your agency, kind of connection to that niche. You would answer the questions, and then you would get a score at the bottom. And when you do this for a series of different possibilities, what you find is which niche seems to be the strongest one for you to consider.

So super easy to use, super helpful, very clear, and it’ll get you thinking more objectively about what niche makes sense for your agency. So to download that, it’s a free tool. All you do is go to agency management institute.com, and then slash niche criteria, all one word. So again, agency management institute.com/niche criteria, and you can download that tool and let me know how it works for you. All right? Okay. So I wanna tell you a little bit about our guest. So Linda Perry is a coach who specializes in the why methodology, and I’m gonna let her explain all of that to you.

But it really is about understanding what motivates people, sort of what is the driver of why they do things, what, what matters most to them, how do they wanna show up? And then there’s this whole other sort of sublay to the why, which is The what and the how. And the whole point of understanding this is to understand yourself better, what motivates you, but also to understand your team members better, what motivates them, and how do you communicate with them in a way that’s really gonna resonate with them, that’s gonna inspire them, that’s gonna motivate them to do the kind of things you need them to do to be a great team member. So in this era of us trying to rethink about culture and connectivity with our team, how do we, how do we create a work environment where everyone feels seen and valued?

You know? And in my solo cast a month or so ago, I talked about sort of the psychological safety of making people sort of feel like they belong and they’re welcome and they’re a part of the team and they can contribute. This sort of goes hand in hand with that, and I think you’re gonna find it fascinating. So without further ado, let me bring Linda onto the show, and let’s start talking about how you can use these tools, what these tools are, and how you can use them to strengthen your agency. Okay, Linda, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me. I’m looking forward to this.

Me too. So give everybody a sense of your background and your experience before I start peppering you with questions and you start making them smarter.

Sure. Like so many people these days, I think I’ve worn several hats to finally land in the career or the business that I love. I started out as a federal criminal defense attorney in Chicago for 17 plus years, and then switched, yeah. And then switched gears completely and became a mindset coach. And I’ll be honest, that was a shock because I became this business owner and I didn’t know how to run this business. And turns out 80% of life coaches fail. So what I did is I started to learn everything I possibly could about marketing copywriting. And it actually landed me in the marketing world for several years, huh? I ended up back as a coach because I started to really see the struggles that copywriters, marketers, agencies had with some of their head trash, as I call it, and with how do we really grow our business to the next level?

So I finally was able to sort of marry all of my tools. And what I really like doing now is, is working with agency owners who are looking to grow to the next level and help them understand their team better, their communications, build leaders, grow their next generation. And that’s really what I do. And I come at it from really a mindset perspective, married with some strategy.

So talk a little bit more about the mindset perspective. What do you mean when you say that?

Yeah. You know, mindset gets this weird rapid, is it mindfulness, right? Is it mindset? Is it woo? Is it

Right? Yeah.

Yeah. Are you gonna make me hold crystals? No, I’m not. Right? So the truth is, is that we make decisions not based on our conscious brain. In fact, only 10% of our decisions are made by the conscious brain. The remaining part of our brain is the one making decisions. The subconscious brain, if you think of like an iceberg, we only see the tippy top whatever is underneath. That’s what’s driving the show. So a lot of what I do is, is really understand what is the gap between where your team is, where they wanna be, where you are as an owner, where you wanna be, what is some of the head trash that stands in the way?

And I call it head trash because we all have some stories, we carry some negativity, but also I tap into that part of our brain, the motivations, the things that actually are our strengths. And I bring them out of people so that agencies can actually reach their goals much faster.

So do you start with, I think you’re right. I think everybody has that voice in the back of their head that you know, is either old stories or what your parents said to you, or you know, those sort of disabling beliefs that we have that a lot of times we’re not even aware that we have. So when you work with an agency, do you start with the owner? Does it, does it all start and end with the owner’s head trash and where their head and heart are at, and if they don’t understand that they can’t run the team? Or do you just dig right into the team?

Yes and no. It really depends what’s happening for the agency. But often what happens is, is there’s a communication problem. There is somebody that’s been identified as the stopgap in the growth. And so what happens is, is I like to understand what the exact situation is, and generally we’ll work with that person, but inevitably, the agency owner begins to learn something about themselves. And so what I start with actually is this tool called why. If anybody’s read Simon Sinek, start with Why. Sure. Essentially, he taps into people’s motivation, which again, is part of the limbic brain. We think we make decisions logically, but really we make decisions with this very sort of primitive part of our brain and then rationalize it with a neocortex and say, this is why we get to where we are.

So,

But isn’t, isn’t, I mean, you would think if anybody understands that that’s the way decisions are made, it’s us. Because we take advantage of that with our copywriting, our design. We know that emotions drive decisions, and we have to tap into that. And then you’re right, then the logical brain says, well, yes, that red Corvette would be a good choice because you know, fill in the blank when really it’s like, that’s a hot car, I want to have it, right? Yeah. So, so you would think we, we wouldn’t be fooled by that, right?

No, you would think, right? And what happens though is, is we’re all too close to our own product, right? Right. We know that. Right? Right. And, and which is why people hire agencies in the first place. But right. When we’re dealing with teams, you often have to start to look at what are the different whys? What are the motivations? How do you speak to somebody in their why not my why, right? And so how do you start to tap into them? Whys that person not turning in their billing? Whys that person insisting on a certain way? And when you begin to understand, and there are nine whys I found this certification, and I think it’s really cool because there’s a really quick assessment, and then we go through your why, your how, and your what.

And what it creates is this picture of each individual that can then build upon the team that can then build upon the overall values and messages. And so that’s really where I start to dive in. And I can see, for example, an agency that maybe will have a bunch of creative idea thinkers, but you’re missing the systems people. So how do you shore that up? And that’s really how you’re gonna get to the next level. And it starts really with the mindset. Because if you’re trying to get somebody who has a why of better way, which is what I do, I have a why better way, I’m always looking for better ways. They’re not necessarily going to be your system creators.

They’re not gonna be the ones that create the path, and they wanna look for better with solutions for everything. So, so they’re gonna be best put on certain projects, outward facing client projects most of the time. And so this is just sort of an interesting thing that you get to start to collect and gather some information. Now, I add to that the toolbox of, I’m a a shadow coach, which means I’m trained in the work of Carl Young, which basically says that again, we have all these limiting beliefs sitting in the back of our brain that are dictating how we’re showing up. And in fact, they dictate our inaction, our procrastination, and the way we communicate with other people, how we show up.

And so that’s the second level that I work to get people on track on their communication skills. And so it’s really creating change in the individual long term so that the agency can actually effectively meet their goals. So everybody’s on the same page.

So I think most people are probably familiar with the why. I think Simon Sinek has done a great job of telling us that. But, but tell, tell us a little more about the h the how, the why connects with The. what, and the how I think is what you said, right? Like te what is that, that, what is that TrkA of things?

So this is really your why operating system, if you will. Okay. And if anyone’s curious about it, this was, I was trained at the Y Institute through this, and you can Google that online, but essentially The what the, the why is your motivation, your how is how you do it, and your, what is what you deliver to people. So I’ll give you my little operating system, and that is, I have a why of better way. How I do that is by challenging norms. So I like to rock boats. I mean, it’s not surprising given my career path, right? What I deliver as trusting relationships, which means I’m actually in the pretty perfect position for my job because I create safe containers for people to create their own changes.

And so I find a better way, because I don’t believe that some of the standard ways we’ve been taught work harder, right? Right. Just, just apply yourself, just dig in. Why aren’t you doing that? Right? Right. Those things aren’t effective. And in fact, most of us have what I call plateaus, where we get stuck. So those goals that we wanna reach, we never get to. Hmm. So, and something brings us always back to the plateau. So when I look at somebody’s roadmap, I can start to see where they get stuck. Someone with a why of better ways gonna get stuck because I, I can’t create original roadmaps.

I need help with that. I also bounce around from idea to idea because I like to challenge things, so someone’s gotta keep me on track. So when I look at the whole operating system, I can actually see where a person’s gonna get stuck. And it actually helps me with the rest of my job, because I can pretty much predict somebody’s limiting beliefs. I can pretty much predict where they’re gonna be resistant and dig their heels in. I can predict where they’re gonna need the most support. And that is super effective. And so that whole why operating system is really a basis from which I can work and actually start to build and say, Hey, this is how you’re gonna communicate with, let’s say the bus, the, the agency owner, right?

If your agency owner has trust as their first, their why, they’re really rooted in you following up with your word. They’re really rooted in relationships. So it teaches me how, it tells me how I need to coach somebody and how I can improve the communication of the team overall, talk to the person based on how they wanna hear, not necessarily how you want it presented.

I can see how this would be helpful for a supervisor or a department head to understand everybody on the team, because I, my guess is we instinctually communicate from our own why, how, and what, right? Yep. Yep. We make the assumption that everyone thinks and works the way we do and values what we value, which I, you know, I, again, logically we were like, that’s, that’s not gonna work. But it’s just probably our sort of go-to. So I’m assuming that part of the work is helping the entire team understand each other so that they work better together in, in a collaborative work environment like an agency.

Yeah. That’s really huge, because again, while most agencies are, are a bunch of creatives, you will have that one person who’s not, and it may create some rifts with the team. And so this is a tool that I use to help everybody understand the rest of the team. Now, the cool part about it too is, is we, before we kick this off, we started to talk about, you know, the younger generation, what’s really neat for them is that when they start to understand their why, they get it a lot earlier than maybe you or I did. And they’re able to start to say, oh, well that’s cool. I’m motivated by this, and this is already a strength I bring.

Because, you know, you remember what it was like to be in your twenties. You didn’t know your strengths, you had no idea. You’re like, I’m showing up here.

And well, and, and I think when you’re in your twenties, in our generation anyway, you just worked harder and longer, right? That was how you proved your value. You didn’t understand, you’re right. You didn’t understand your core worth. But it was just, I’m gonna work harder than everybody else, and I’m never leaving the office before the boss leaves the office.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s how we were trained, right? And unfortunately, you know, that did lead to a lot of burnout. Yeah. And this generation is really emotionally intelligent. Yeah. So they, they know that that doesn’t work, right? Yet, they’re not exactly sure what does. And so providing them with their whole operating system gives them an idea as to how they’re gonna show up. I can work with ’em where they’re gonna get stuck. And what’s cool for the agency owners is they see that somebody caress and is invested in them. And that matters. I mean, they want someplace cool to work.

They want the interaction. They’ve been raised in Covid, and they’re starting to work and they’ve not met, they don’t, they don’t know anything about the people they work with. Right? And so, what, what I love about this tool is, is it’s, it’s a way for people to connect too. So imagine, you know, all of a sudden you’re the agency owner and you have a yf Makes sense, makes sense. People are problem solvers by the way. And then so is your new young employee, you now have this connection automatically and something to share. We all wanna belong somewhere. Yeah. And so this is a tool that we start to think about as a tool for communication, for retention.

Then you can think about it also as a tool for sales. Imagine you have a whole bunch of better way challenge kind of people that are really like, we’re gonna do this differently and we’re gonna do it better. You now have some additional marketing messaging that you can really feel confident about. You may have known it, but you feel confident about it because you now have something that proves to you. Yeah. I have innovators on my team. Right. And that’s something that I’ve seen as as very helpful as well.

Yeah. You know, we do research every year and, and a couple years ago, normally we’re talking to clients of agencies every year, but a couple years ago, right? I think it was 2021. So as we were coming out of covid, we kind of turned the telescope and talked to agency employees. And one of the things that was, came out loud and clear to your point, is that one of the reasons why they would stay at an agency, a specific agency, is because they feel like their boss gets them as a human being, right? Yeah. So it’s not just they understand my skill as a copywriter or an account director, but that they see all of me, they understand the, my struggles, what’s going on with my family, but they, I, I feel seen and, and what you were just saying, maybe sort of connect to that, which is, you know, they, they want to be mentored and recognized in a way that feels really authentic to them.

Yeah, for sure. And, and this really gives the agency owner a new way of thinking about that. You know, and I do hear from agency owners saying like, look, I’m investing, especially if you are trying to grow to the next level, and you wanna make sure that you have the right team in place, you’re investing in people. And the biggest worry always is, are they gonna go away? Are they gonna go to someplace else? And it used to be just throwing money at the problem, right? And I don’t think that that’s the complete picture anymore. And so it really is a tool to, to help people see that they’re valued in a new way. And I will say it can also support your mentorship programs, right?

Because mentorships, you and I were talking about this, you used to go to work, you would sort of shadow people, you’d learn by the sink or swim method, as I used to be told, often when I was a lawyer. You just sort of follow along, you’d mirror what people did. And because so much is done, you know, in the privacy of our own homes now, in our home offices, and you aren’t always in the office. I mean, I, I know most agencies have some sort of hybrid model, because that’s really the demand these days, right? And the truth is, is you are missing out on how do you learn certain aspects that can only be taught through this kind of connection on a daily basis.

So one of the things that I like about using a tool like this is it’ll help you develop the kinds of mentorship programs that perhaps your agency may need. Because if you really understand your why, and typically agency owners tend to hire the same types of people because they know what works, right? You can start to see where am I filling in the gaps, and where would I be advised to create this as the tool for them, or this kind of mentorship, or perhaps I partner them with this director, right? And I think that’s how it actually can be utilized in a way that really, again, change happens, growth happens inside out, whether that’s individual or a business.

And this is an opportunity for agency owners to start to change within, create an even stronger solid foundation, and then start to go after those bigger clients.

So given the hybrid remote world we live in, you know, I, I think a lot of agencies are just struggling to figure out how to create connectivity, how to create connection between coworkers, between supervisor and direct reports, between an agency owner. You know, I think for a lot of agency owners, the way they connected was management by walking around, right? They would walk the halls and they would just chitchat with people and they would cultivate relationship. And it’s hard to do that by, you know, me sending you, you know, me sending you a slack message that says, Hey, do you wanna have a virtual coffee? And we both, you know, are on our zoom going, this is awkward. And like, you know, that, I just think it’s especially agency owners that have been doing this for a while, that grew up in a completely different era.

They’re struggling to figure out how to create a meaningful culture and meaningful connection with their team.

Yeah. And I think the default is, let’s just bring a bit everybody back in the office. But again, people resist that because they like the flexibility of working where they want. Like as you and I are talking, I moved to Lisbon five months ago because I like working for me and wherever I want, right? And at at the same token, you know, here’s the thing, you have to understand, this next generation too, communication for them has always been on their phones, but it also makes them poor communicators. Right? And here’s why they don’t know how to ask for help. Number one, they don’t know when, when the building is actually burning, right? Right.

And it’s not, this isn’t to Label them or make them bad. And in fact, they’re incredibly hard workers. They were raised, you know, to understand the value of showing up. It’s just that nobody’s shown them the way. So when it comes to connection, it is really about creating that, first of all, that mirror from communication. We’re really genuinely checking in, how are you, what kind of support do you need? The other aspect of this is, you know, there’s subtle ways that you can create con connection by having perhaps little sort of masterminds within the agency.

For example, times for just for troubleshooting, brainstorming, whatever it is that create creative space where you can just unwind. Where it’s not just a to-do list. It’s not just about checking the boxes off, but it is about getting a little creative about how you’re bringing everybody together, right? And so, you know, there are those opportunities, retreats are becoming important, right? Those virtual offsite bring everybody together at least once, a blue moon, whatever it is for your agency. Maybe it’s a quarter, maybe it’s a year, maybe it’s, you know, bi-annually, whatever it may be. But it is bringing people in person.

And so co I mean, I cringed at the thought of another coffee chat, right? That how many have we all been on and right. And it is just, they aren’t effective in terms of creating that bond. So right there, there is a necessity to be face-to-face. I, I do a hundred percent believe that because there’s something that some people may miss in this kind of thing, right? This kind of, you and I are looking at each other on Zoom right now. And I think it’s also about being creative with tools that we do have. How are you using the time? You know, how is the supervising director or individual spending their time?

Do they have a framework for connection? How are you onboarding, right? All of these things matter. And even I, I encourage people to have every new employee or everybody who feels they’re ready to essentially do the why, so that there’s some sort of onboarding and saying, Hey, great, we value this kind of person and this is how we, we would love to see you grow within the company. So I think there are ways to do it. I think we just have to get creative. I, I mean, I remember all my bosses though, used to walk by my office Yep. And, you know, stick

Their head in the door, right.

Chit chat. Exactly. Yeah. Right. And so, you know, and we are all connected on social media in some sense. Yeah. And so it’s, it’s, some people share more than others, and so we just are mindful. Yes, yes, true. But great. I saw really great picture of so and so, you know, it’s, it can cross a line sometimes, but just we, we, you’re not the one friending them. That’s just all I have to say. If you’re, you’re the agency, I’m our boss. I never do, it’s something I’ve never done, is I never friend somebody first. But the thing is, just be mindful. There are creative ways of doing this and, and tapping into those and using them really important.

So I wanna take a break, but when we come back, I wanna talk about a, when you, when you, if you as an agency decide that you wanna explore this, why, how, what, and, and it, you want to use it as a framework to get to know each other, to motivate each other, to learn how to communicate better with each other. What is the agency owner’s role in kind of kicking that off? You know, a lot of agency owners don’t really want to share personal stuff. They don’t wanna say, you know, I’m a this, or I’m a Sagittarius, or I’m a whatever. So what’s their role in doing that? And then how do you, how would you roll it out?

So it does become a useful tool both internally and potentially externally. So let’s take a quick break and then I wanna start with the agency owner. Like, what’s, if I’m the owner, what’s my responsibility in sort of leading the charge and setting the example and how do I get comfortable with that, if that doesn’t sound awesome to me? And then how do we actually make it a tool throughout the agency? So let’s take a quick break and then we’ll talk about that. Hey, just wanna take a quick minute and tell you about a resource that we have on the website that I don’t talk about as often as I should. So it’s an exercise called My Future Self. And the reason why you would do this exercise is if you are in planning mode. And this is really for you as either an agency owner or an agency leader, but you really wanna think about what your future looks like, not the agency’s future, your future.

I find so many agency owners struggle with how they are spending their days, and is it fulfilling and is this what they wanna do? You know, in five years that we created an exercise, and I, I will tell you a, a very brief story, but I first did a version of this exercise probably 15 years ago, and it basically walks you through some thinking and you have to do some journaling around what your future self looks like. And you have to sort of give yourself into it. You have to really suspend like the reality and talk about what it is today. But I’m telling you when I did it, how it was different from my current moment in my life was pretty dramatic.

And I was working with a coach at the time and I said, this is great, and this is the life I want, but it doesn’t look like my life now. And we talked about just sort of being open to the possibility of transitioning in some of those directions. And I will tell you, for the last 10 years, I have been living that life, the life that I created in this exercise. So it’s can be very powerful and very eyeopening. And I’m not a woo woo kind of guy, but once I understood what I wanted as opportunities presented themselves, I just took advantage of them in different ways than I would’ve had I not done this exercise. So head over to the am I website and go to agency management institute.com/my future self.

And you can read more about it. There’s an intro, a video intro where I tell you all about it and then some questions. It’s $197. If you don’t like it or you don’t want, you don’t end up doing it. Happy to give you your money back. But I’m telling you can be really transformative if you give yourself into the exercise and really do it with an open heart. So just wanted to tell you it was there. Hopefully it’ll be helpful for some of you. Okay, let’s get back to the show. Alright, we are back with Linda Perry and we are talking about how do we communicate better by understanding our team members better, by understanding ourselves better in this framework of what is your why, what is your how, what is your what?

So before the break, I said to Linda, what I wanted to sort of explore is, okay, yes, it’s interesting for us all as individuals to go take the assessment and figure out what our thing is. But as an agency owner, if you really want this to be a tool and you think this is a way to create connection and better communication and better motivation, when you understand what motivates somebody, then, you know, helping create both reward, you know, risk and reward for them gets a little easier. But how do we unveil this into the agency and what’s our role as the agency, the owner to sort of set the pace for that? So Linda, how, what, what do you think we have to do?

What is our responsibility as the owner of the company?

You know, if somebody’s listening to this, I, I often say, do the why assessment with me. Have me go through your own personal why operating system with you so that you have an opportunity to see what kind of awareness that unlocks in you, how it starts to help you communicate within your agency. And I think if you start to see how differently you show up, when you understand your own why, your how, your what, the change starts to be almost infectious. You want more of that for everybody. And you start to identify those individuals who might actually benefit from this. Truthfully, the way this has really unfolded for me often is, is, is that either the agents agency owner will really see the value in this because they understand their why.

They now have validation. It’s always a validation piece that really kicks in around their messaging, around how they show up, right? If they are people who really value their customer and it shows up in their why operating system, it feels like, oh yeah, that’s why I’m so attached to these outcomes for them. That’s why I have such buy-in. That’s why I actually work such crazy hours for some of these people, right? There’s a bit of an understanding of yourself. And plus I identify those places pretty quickly. I mean, it’s one of the skills that I have and I’m after, you know, you do this for a long time, I can nail somebody’s places where they’re gonna plateau or stuck pretty quickly and I mirror it back.

And so we start to create momentum quickly for that individual. So it can start top down. Or what really happens is, is people have the, the agency’s grown so fast and everybody has worn so many different hats, right? You start to see how like unsustainable that really is, right? And you start to see the cracks in your individuals where somebody was able to do a hundred different things. Now, the demands of being, you know, managing of doing more administrative work at the top there are some cracks showing. So what’ll happen is, is you will experience a managing director who wants to know how to lead, who wants to know what it means to step into this new role. So I’m often brought in at that level where the, the one or two people that they see could use some support here to grow, starts the process.

And then of course the agency owner’s like, well, I wanna know my why, right? And then one, once they all share it, and I usually put it on a matrix even. So I have a matrix where you can see the whole team or whoever’s done the why, and you can start to see the patterns. You can learn about the other whys and, and start to see, oh, that explains why so and so has shown up this way. And it changes the communication pretty quickly. Meetings become shorter. In fact, there was a couple of agencies, I’ve provided some feedback forms, let’s cut to the chase. Let’s, let’s make sure that the, the reflections and the feedbacks mirror our whys and that we’re actually continuing to use that language.

And so that’s really the responsibility of the agency owner is look, test it out with yourself. Don’t believe me. Right? Right. I will, will tell you, I have a really rich toolbox. I use several different assessments. I have studied more than you would know about mindset. And then this tool came in and I found it so translatable that it really made my job even easier. Sure. And so it’s, it’s neat to see how there is buy-in really quickly because you get everybody on board, they want, I, I haven’t seen this yet. They wanna know their why because they wanna understand themselves.

Sure. Everybody loves as, I mean, we see that on Facebook, right? Yeah. Every, everybody loves an assessment. If, if you wanna know what you’re, you know, what kind of tiger you are, then by answering three questions, you’ll, you’ll wanna know this, right?

But I do wanna say this comes with, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of hours. The founder Gary Sanchez, is really used to do these individually. He would take an individual through hours of work and he is actually sy synthesized it down into an assessment. And then I just run through and share what that actually means. So cool. Lucky for me. But the truth is, is there is actual science behind it. And you spent sure,

Of course,

Years perfecting it. And so it’s kind of neat to see, and yes, we all wanna know what kind of person am I, we want some sort of answers. And, and I think more than that, people wanna know how they can show up in a better way. I mean, I really think that most of us are working really hard and trying to show up. And so your team really, if they’re there, they wanna show up and fulfill the mission of the agency. They want better clients to work with, they want to have more fun. And this unlocks the door. And I think that’s where something like this becomes imperative. There are, there are a lot of tools out there, you know, whether it is Kolby StrengthsFinder, whether it’s the Enneagram, whether or Kolby Index, Gallup StrengthsFinder, all of them are really important tools.

One of the things that I like is, is tapping into the subconscious brain is where the change happens. Because most people are focused on all the doing. So most people will be like, let’s just have a rah rah, you know, event and bring everybody closer. It’s focused on the doing. If you can get to the actual motivations behind each individual, you are now going that root cause level to create change. Right? And that is why I think thing tools like this are essential if you’re gonna grow to the next level, and if that’s your desire, right? I think it gets harder and harder these days, whether it’s, it’s almost like if you’re on listening to any sort of news, you, you are being bombarded day to day by recession by, I just saw today, I think covid iss returning back to the US again.

Like it’s God, it’s daily. Your clients are listening to this too though, right? So how your clients then they’re buying and their activity, particularly in the marketing industry, is impacted by what they’re listening to for sure. Now, you all, you also have this toolbox to talk to them about what matters to them. And so this is where I think working from the inside out is so important and not forgetting that the people we’re trying to attract to have all these same motivations. And the more we tap into ’em, obviously we know that as marketers, but tap into ’em in a way that goes to that root cause.

Not for manipulation, but for understanding. Right. The better the opportunities.

Yeah. Well now as I, as I was listening to you, I, yes, we wanna know about ourselves, but I also think we want other people to understand us. And so it’s not just, I wanna learn about me, but I wanna learn about me so I can teach you about me,

Right.

So we can work better together.

Right. I think I, I watched or listened to a texturing between my, you know, 21 year old and 23 year old today. And that was really the core of their fight with me somehow participating in this texturing of them really trying to be heard, right. And listen. And they were talking past each other. And I just, you know, sometimes as a parent you leave it alone, but when you see that happening in a business, yeah. Most people are just swallowing what they have to say. There’s seething resentment that goes home, or the anger or disappointment. And that’s what we’re trying to get at. So we can really Right. Release it. And people can be like, I know I have a tool. Great. I’m so this is so much easier.

Right? So I would think part of that is, part of all of this is once you understand yourself, then I think it’s twofold, right? It’s now I use, now I have a tool to understand you better, but I also have an obligation or an opportunity to teach you about me so that we can work better together in a way that we sort of remove all the barriers of communication and we just, we just know better how to talk to each other so that our message is really well received.

Yeah. So let’s say you have a make sense kind of person. Makes sense. People are problem solvers. There isn’t a problem that they, they don’t love. And in fact they’re really great to have around because they’re amazing in a crisis. They stay calm, but their focus is really on the solution at all times. And they love complex problems. Now imagine they’re talking to somebody with the why of trust,

Right?

The way I coach those and trust is really about, I, I had a trust breached early in life. So trust is so important to me. So I need you to show up for me. That’s basically a trust human. And so when they’re communicating, it’ll often be communication that goes past each other. So what I do is often teach the make sense person those small little things they can do to continue to foster the trust with a trust person. I teach them to share their trust, but also utilize how quickly the make sense person can solve their bigger problems. Right? And so now we are actually being effective. It cuts to the chase. I’m not expecting from the make sense person to have a ton of empathy, in fact, that’s okay.

That’s not their role, right? And so that’s really how we can start to use our strengths and recognizing that some of the weaknesses in each can be shored up with some tools on communication belief systems, right? This is why I do go back to the belief systems so they can each start to question the beliefs they were given. Is it true that working longer hours is going to get us to where we want? Is it true that the emotions have no say in this? Is it true? It’s a simple question, but we all begin to start to question, right? All the beliefs that we came with, and mind you, most of the beliefs that we hold or forms before the age of 10, science has proven us that we were, we’ve been collecting beliefs and most of ’em were wrong, right?

’cause we didn’t understand the world, right?

We had no context, right?

Right. So you may have not been able to do a math problem and deemed yourself stupid, right? And then you’ve been trying to prove it the rest of your life and you’re just coming across as a jerk, right? And so the idea is, is how do we start to shift that belief so that you can actually show up authentically, find your strengths, stop chasing whatever that is, and actually be an effective team member. And that’s, that’s the fun part,

Right? Right. Yeah. So how does, how does all of this align with or support or butt heads with an agency’s mission, vision and values, which are usually born from the agency owner?

Yep.

And you know, we, we hear a lot of, you know, you want employees that are aligned with your mission, vision, and values. So how does, how does understanding everybody’s why and the owner’s why, how does that play into sort of the mission vision’s, values belief set?

I think your why informs all of it to start with. I mean, I’ve never been one for mission statements. I find them to be exercises in in somebody’s, you know, somebody needing to be paid well and essentially mission statements gets shoved in a drawer and aren’t ever used. Yeah. But I think sometimes is more valuable isn’t understanding the vision and that it is communicated. I think we screw up what visions. Our visions are not goals, visions are big picture, who do we wanna Yeah, it’s understand,

Right?

Yeah, exactly. There are things that are going to excite everybody. At least that’s the intention. And in fact, that can be the filter through which you hire in some ways, right? Yeah. Right along with the other tools. But your why informs it, right? And, and for me particularly my vision is providing people a better way to reach higher ground. I mean, it’s pretty simple. How do you get to where you wanna go and, and provide them with a path toward that? And that gets me up every single day. And so your why informs that that vision, your mission is a nice to have. If you can create that, your values also are in all of those things.

What do you value? I think a lot of what I do around the beliefs is I question, is it a belief or is it really a true value? And those are the things we start to pick apart. Is this a belief, you know, that everybody has to, you know, I believe in somebody has to be determined or tenacious. Tenacious used to be my word. It was a value until it started to cause me to plateau, right? Because tenacity can lead to burnout. Tenacity can lead to overall tenacity though can also cause you to be scattered. So at some point in time is the value being driven by some sort of limiting belief.

So we kind of check those things until you get to a place that really feels aligned with aligned who you are. Now look, the agent’s own agency owner is likely to drive all of those things. Sure. Their why really probably is the one that matters the most in terms of that messaging. And at the same time, like I had a, a few agency owners who hire the opposite of themselves, which is pretty smart. Yeah. Because they’re filling in these pieces. Yeah. But it creates a bigger picture and it actually expands what the agency owner originally thought was their mission or their vision. And that’s where I think it can be a really cool tool to play with.

And in fact, you know, we work with businesses to do that and so it’s just unpacking it. And I can always hear when there’s a value that’s belief driven, you can always hear it, especially if you ask a few questions.

Yeah. So we’ve been talking a lot about employees and obviously when you’re a team you can all take the assessment, talk about the results, all of that. I just wanna sort of dig into this real quick before I let you go. But with clients, you’re probably not gonna ask ’em to take the assessment, right? And so how do you ascertain what a client’s whys it with in the absence of an assessment? Like how do you, are there questions you can ask? Are there clues you can look for that will help you at least sort of narrow down what their whys? ’cause I thought what you said earlier, wa which was, you know, clients are, are fed the same sort of messaging that everybody is fed with either on the news or whatever it is.

And yet they still have to make buying decisions. And so sometimes, for example, the recession’s a great example. A lot of agencies are really struggling this year to get new clients because everybody’s worried about the economy. So if I understood what motivated my client, I might be able to help them push past that fear and see the value in moving forward. So how do I figure that out?

Yeah. You know, lucky me, I I I’ve spent a life interviewing people, so for me it’s second nature to listen Sure. For some of those cues. So yay for that. But I think all of us are skilled if we do any sort of sales for listening for that. Especially if you have read books on persuasion, which we all have in the marketing world. Yeah. And, and we understand some of those pieces. I think you start to listen to cues. For example, somebody with a y clarify, we’ll ask you 8,000 questions. They will, it will be incessant before they buy. They must know things. And so it is patiently waiting and saying, is everything clear?

It’s mirroring back language again. It’s a little bit of n L P if you’ve ever listened to sort of that mirroring Yeah. Concept. But there is, can you just, can you just break it down for me? That’s somebody with the why of simplify. Wow. I really never thought of it that way. That is such a better way. I’m really looking for a better way to get there the right way. People are my favorite. They’re the rule followers. You’ll find your right way. Ones makes sense are quick problem solvers. And now I’m forgetting some contribute. People love mission. So anybody in not-for-profits have lots of contribute around them. Right. Trust people. People will tell you, I need to know that you’re gonna show up. I need to know I’ve been burned. Right. They’ll tell you. So a again, it’s really listening to those subtle small Yeah.

Looking for those clues.

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s pretty quick. I don’t, I can’t always get it. I won’t lie. But I, I mean, once I start working with an agency, actually it was funny ’cause one of recently I had worked with an agency and I, I, I knew what the owner was right away. And, and, and just from listening to them, I’m also on a team. Like, I, I teach at a, a life coach training school and I, I knew what my team was just from years of being with ’em and listening to ’em before they took the assessment. Right. But it’s really an opportunity to just listen to the languaging people use. They’ll tell you who they are and they’ll tell you what matters to them. And you know, it is, as Gary Sanchez sort of talks about in the why Institute, it is the platinum rule.

Speak to them in their language. Yeah. The golden rule is treat others as you would have them treat you. The platinum rule would be treat them as they wish to be treated. And that is really listening to their languaging.

Yeah. Yeah. This is fascinating. If folks want to learn more about all of this, if they wanna talk to you more, if I, I’m assuming that you’re creating content around this and teaching around it all the time. Yeah. What’s the best way for them to tap into all of that?

So I am at Linda m Perry dot com. There is a, an opportunity to connect with me about the why session. I’m actually updating my page as we speak. So it will be on the homepage. You can book a time with me, but I also write about this, this is all sort of my new direction on LinkedIn. So I am active on LinkedIn. I love writing articles. So I’m at Linda m Perry on LinkedIn because goodness knows Linda Perry is a rockstar. So I had to add the m Right. Find

Me because she was not gonna add hers, her middle initial. No. Right. She wasn’t,

She was not. So it was my, my my way to do it. So, but I am pretty active on there and I love having these conversations. Please feel free to reach out. I always answer pretty quickly. That’s part of my makeup is I like to be there for people. So I do answer quickly.

Yeah. This has been awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your expertise. And you know, I, again, I think we’re just in this new era of being an agency owner or leader and looking for tools to build better, stronger teams and to make them more effective because the old way isn’t available to us anymore. So this has been, I think, super helpful as people sort of navigate sort of, you know, the new way, which is I think now the new normal. So this has been, this has been really great.

Great. Thank you. I had so much fun talking about I can geek out about this any day.

Yeah, me too. It’s fascinating. In fact, I’m gonna go do the assessment right now, so Awesome. I’ll let you know, I’ll let you know. All right guys, this rep’s up another episode of Build a Better Agency. So Linda gave you a lot of tools and so whether you go do the assessment, whether you reach out to her, just the idea, if nothing else, of thinking about how you fashion your communication and the more you can understand the way somebody wants to be communicated, to what matters to them, and that you retool the way you approach them from that perspective, as opposed to sort of our own native natural way, which is of course how we want to be communicated with.

Even that alone could change a lot of the relationships you have inside of agencies, but she gave you a lot of deeper, more meaningful and more useful tools as well. So as you know, I like episodes where you walk away with new knowledge, new tools, and I think we really hit the nail on the head this episode with that. So please don’t just listen, go and learn more about this stuff. Explore it, reach out to Linda, do what you need to do to be a better communicator, to better understand yourself and your team. Because, at the end of the day, your greatest asset is your people and your greatest expense is your people. So treating them well, getting them to stick around, getting them to be a raving fan of working for you all translates to better relationships with clients, with coworkers, all of that which is critical to our success.

So lots of good tools. I wanna hear about how you put those into play. Okay. And then as always, I wanna quickly give a shout out and thank you to our friends at White. Label. IQ, as you know, they have been the presenting sponsor for years. They’re born out of an a m I agency. They, I’ve known these folks for 20 some years. They do white Label, design dev and PPC. And if you go to White Label IQ dot com slash aami, they have a special deal for you. But these, the, because they’re, they come from an agency, they understand how to price their services. So you have opportunities to make money to scale.

For many of you, they’re your backup plan when you’ve got too much work and your internal team can’t get it all done, you turn to them. Others of you have decided you’re not gonna keep an internal team anymore. You’re just gonna let them be your internal team. But good, good people really talented and they completely understand agency life and what you’re trying to do as an agency owner or leader. So that makes ’em a really great partner. So check ’em out, make sure you let ’em know that you came their way through the podcast so that they know that we appreciate them and that’ll make me very happy. All right. As always, it’s a delight to hang out with you every week. I, I love these conversations. I learn so much every time somebody’s smart like Linda comes on the show. So thank you for listening ’cause it means that I get to keep doing what I love to do and I’ll be back next week with another guest and in meantime, you know how to reach me.

Okay? I’ll see you in the Facebook group and I’ll talk to you next week. Thanks for listening.

That’s a wrap for this week’s episode of Build Better Agency. Visit agency management institute.com to check out our workshops, coaching and consulting packages and all the other ways We serve agencies just like yours. Thanks for listening.