Clients rarely fire an agency over something big. It’s actually a build up of little things that erode trust and begin to wear on the relationship. Over time, the relationship is so damaged, no one inside the client organization is willing to fight to keep you.

Are your account service teams focusing on the little things, the details, the things that can make it easier to work with you rather than more difficult?  

My podcast guest, Chantell Glenville has been on both sides of the agency/client coin and can tell you without a doubt that it is the little things that drive clients nuts and lead to them beginning to shop around for another agency.

Listen in on my conversation with Chantell as we make sure you’re doing everything you can to build relationships that last. Here are some of the things we cover:

  • Things agencies do over and over that drive clients crazy
  • The small behaviors that break apart relationships
  • What agencies don’t know about the world clients live in
  • The complexity of the structure of clients’ systems
  • How agencies can help clients manage the revision process
  • Why you need to know more than one person inside your client’s company (and get to know them face-to-face)
  • The working hour differences between agencies and clients
  • Why you should never overpromise and underdeliver
  • The two things that create great agency-client relationships
  • Why attention to detail is so important for agencies
  • How to get to the top of a client’s to-do list
  • Reasons clients will fire agencies (and why they never want to do that)
  • Things agency owners can do right now to help their account executives improve agency-client relationships

Chantell Glenville is the author of “What Clients Really Want (And The Shit That Drives Them Crazy)” the first ever book on how to create great client/agency relationships written by an ex-client. Winner of the WACL Future Leader’s Award 2013, Chantell has worked at some of the UKs top creative communications agencies such as AMV BBDO, VCCP, and Dare as well as client-side at Vodafone, a multinational teleco.

Her experience both client and agency-side has given her a unique insight into the situations and behaviors that can really break client/agency relationships or make them excellent. Chantell has worked with and for agencies with varying specialties and on a broad range of clients; from international blue chips such as Johnson & Johnson, Barclaycard, Molson Coors, and Henkel through to high profile UK and pan-European accounts.

To listen – you can visit the Build A Better Agency site ( and grab either the iTunes or Stitcher files or just listen to it from the web.  

If you’d rather just read the conversation, the transcript is below:

Table of Contents (Jump Straight to It!)

  1. The Things that Drive Your Clients Nuts
  2. Agencies Overpromise and Underdeliver
  3. What Makes a Great Agency Partner?
  4. What Clients Really Want from You

If you’re going to take the risk of running an agency, shouldn’t you get the benefits too? Welcome to Build a Better Agency, where we show you how to build an agency that can scale and grow with better clients, invested employees, and best of all, more money to the bottom line. Bringing his 25-plus years of expertise as both an agency owner and agency consultant to you, please welcome your host, Drew McLellan.

Drew: Hey everybody, Drew McLellan here. Welcome to another episode of Build a Better Agency. This podcast is designed for you, the agency owner and your staff, to help you build bigger, better, stronger agencies, and to have a little more fun along the way. Today’s topic is one that I think is vital to agencies. So, one of the things we’re finding in a lot of the work we’re doing with agencies is that it’s not just agencies you compete with anymore. Nowadays, media companies can do everything that…I’m doing this in air quotes, by the way…”Media companies can do everything agencies do”. Clients are building in-house agencies and trying to be agencies, and so you’ve really got competition nipping at your heels from all directions.

One of the things that makes agencies distinct, and is a value proposition that you offer clients, is the way that we serve our clients through our account service teams. And a lot of you know how vital your account folks are.  That literally, they are the ones who are not only helping you keep your clients, but they are the ones who are helping you grow those clients. One of the things we teach in the AMI workshops is that about 70% of an agency’s business, new revenue, should be coming from existing clients. So, your account service team, whether you call them account execs, or account managers, or whatever name you call them, they’re vital to the health of your agency. And them creating lasting, strong, consultative relationships with your clients is really critical to your agency’s long-term health.  

So lots of agencies invest in their account service folks. A lot of people have started hiring them young and then growing them into really great account leaders. However you approach account service, there are some things that we know are best practices around that. We teach some of those in our AE bootcamps but today’s guest is coming at it from a very unique perspective.

So Chantell Glenville is an author of a book called What Clients Really Want (And The Shit That Drives Them Crazy): The Essential Insider’s Guide for Advertising Agencies on How Account Management Can Create Great Client/Agency Relationships. And what’s beautiful about that is that she comes at this from the perspective of having been a client. So, she spent seven years agency-side and then she went over to the client side. So she’s seen it from both perspectives and the book is really all about…think of it as what an ex-client, or what a client or an ex-client, would love to say to you and your account team if they knew that they could. So, with that, I am gonna welcome Chantell to the podcast. Chantell, thanks for joining us today.

Chantell: Thank you, Drew. Thank you for the very nice introduction.


The Things that Drive Your Clients Nuts

Drew: Your book is great. So I enjoyed it and I found myself nodding my head. So let’s dig in. What are a couple things that account service folks do that drive clients nuts?

Chantell: So I think that one important point on it is that I don’t think any of the stuff that account service folk do that drives clients nuts is intentional, by any means.

Drew: Nope, absolutely not. You’re right.  

Chantell: Yeah. I think it just comes about through essentially a lack of understanding and that’s kind of why I wrote the book in the first place. And my viewpoint on it is that a lot of people in account servicing unfortunately, they don’t work client-side and they’ve never worked client-side. Or they spend years agency-side first and then maybe go client-side later. And so it means that that fundamental understanding of what the client’s world is like, what their pressures at play are, what their day-to-day goings about are, what their internal structures are, just isn’t there. And so, it can lead to a lot of, not even necessarily big things, really small things which make the clients lives harder, and so annoy them over time without even the agency realizing in any way, whatsoever.

For example, one of the big ones that I’ve seen, and I’ve seen this when I worked agency-side and also client-side. It’s the same issues that come up time and time again that break down these relationships. So one of the examples, off the top of my head, is when work is gonna be delayed. And obviously, as you know, at agencies that happens all the time. You know, sometimes files take longer to explore than expected, creative reviews don’t go as you thought they would. And clients understand that, they know the timings move. But what you see frequently when one of the pages that pops up is that when that happens, instead of the agency picking up the phone and talking to the client, giving regular updates as to when the work will be through, they actually disappear.  Which might sound like a stretch but it’s true and it happens time and time again, and they properly disappear. And, of course, that’s easier for account management, then they don’t have to deal with the awkward conversation, and in their minds, they wait. I mean, I’ve been guilty of this myself, even agency-side. I’m not pointing the finger by any means.

You kind of wait until you’re like, “Well, I’ll wait ’til I’ve got some good news to tell the client, ’til I can tell them it’s definitely gonna be there then”, rather than actually bringing the client in on the journey and letting them be fully aware of everything that’s going on, so that they can better manage the internal situation. They need that awareness in order to manage their internal situations, in order to manage their boss who’s breathing down their ear or the review they might have coming up with those senior stakeholders. And they can’t do that without those open and honest conversations. So it might seem like a small thing, especially if it’s a half-hour delay or something like that, but it can make a huge difference to the client and it’s not that this situation is going to change, the work is still late, either way. But, that work being late can either be a small thing and can be, “Okay, all right, that’s not ideal. The work was late but, you know, we’re all fine, you managed the situation well”. Or it can turn into a really big issue that starts to build client-side time and time again when these situations are mismanaged.

And so, it’s about trying to stop those small behaviors that build into these big things, and destroy the relationship. And as you said before, you know, there’s lots of competition coming from all sides to take clients from agencies. And the sad truth is that even when agencies are producing great work, they still get fired and it’s usually because of a breakdown in the relationship, when that happens.

Drew: Yeah, you know, one of the things I talk about a lot is clients never object to the $10,000 price on the bill, they object to the $50 FedEx charge or some little thing. And, I think, often times, we forget how surprises and lack of communication feel on the receiving end of that.

Chantell: Absolutely and it is small things. Small things is like a $50 FedEx charge. It is things like that, that if they’re not put up-front and if the client isn’t aware, then it causes problems for them their side. So like a $50 FedEx charge, well if the client only has 10k, and they’ve already budgeted that, and that’s spent, where are they getting the $50 from, you know? It just, it creates an additional hurdle they’ve gotta get over. They’ve gotta get an new PO from their finance department, it’s like an avalanche.

Drew: Right, right, it’s a process all of a sudden that they have to go into, right? Absolutely right, yep.

Chantell: But for something so small that could’ve been avoided if there was the better forward planning in the first place, you know?  

Drew: Well, I think, again, I think a lot of this, and I think what your book sort of emphasizes, is the idea that we have to really able to understand, we have to kind of walk in the shoes of our clients to understand what their world is like. What are some things about the client’s world that you think may not be top-of-mind or may not be really clear to agency folks? What don’t we know about their world?

Chantell: There are two things that spring to mind first, in relation to that. So one would be the fact that there are so many different stakeholders that clients have to manage and so many different stakeholders from different departments.

So I mean, if you look at a client’s linear structure, it’s quite similar to an agency where your account manager is reporting into a managing partner or someone like that, who’s reporting into the CEO. You have a similar sort of structure, client-side. However, there’s then about another five or six usually, managing partner equivalents, that your day-to-day client is also gonna have to get sign-up from. Because there’s gonna be the product team, there’s gonna be all the different departments that have their own input, who technically, shouldn’t really control how the marketing communications are formatted and things. However, because they do have approval rights, they will, to some extent, control that. They will feed in changes, they will affect things greatly in their feedback, and they will usually feedback more than they should even as well. And that’s just how a lot of companies are structured and so clients have to go along with it.

So, one thing I’ll say about how they’re very different is the fact that there are so many different people and rungs of approvals that clients have to go through.  That one thing changing can derail a project hugely. Because then they’ve gotta start that process all over again, they’ve gotta go through all those different departments again. It’s a more complicated structure in general. Whereas, agencies, because they’re usually quite streamlined and flexible, even the bigger agencies, you create smaller teams within that so you can move things around quicker. Clients aren’t usually set up for that.

Drew: So let me stop you there for a second and then we’ll get to your second one. So this is a really frustrating point for agencies.  Is that agencies build into their budget, as you know, a certain amount of revision time and all of that. And it seems like clients can never honor that. There’s always one more revision, or twelve more revisions, and so agencies are struggling. They get that there are a lot of people sort of in the mix. But from the agency’s perspective, how can they help a client move through the approval process, or get things to keep on-course, and on-budget, and on-track timewise? Because it’s not just the money, it’s also the timeline of, “We want our website to go live but there have been so many changes, we can’t do it.” How can the agencies be better about that with clients, recognizing that there all kinds of layers of approval process, some that are really clear in the org chart and some that are probably hidden under politics or dotted lines?

Chantell: Yeah, I mean, that’s a huge problem that so many agencies face. It’s a really good point and you’re right. A lot of the approvals dots are hidden in the org chart and that’s a really key point about it, they’re hidden in the org chart. So the first step I would suggest to any agency to getting around that issue is whoever will be kind of your lead, in terms of doing stuff when you’re getting campaigns out agency-side, get them to shadow your client for a week or two weeks, whatever it is. Get them to go into your client’s company and get them to shadow and sit down with their client, and really talk through literally everything that is involved for them on getting a campaign out.

Because until you properly understand that and live that, you won’t be able to help your client manage that process. Once you know it, you can go, “Okay, all right, so I can see how maybe you could’ve grouped these approvals into this” or “If we supply you the work then, you can do that set of approvals there which means you’ll get feedback from that group.” And you can work out how many rounds there were gonna be because, you know, there are just some client structures where two rounds of amends isn’t going to be possible. But if you know that up-front, you can manage that in one, the cost estimate you build, you can manage that there is more rounds of amends than two. You can manage that in the timings up-front.  But you’ve gotta be aware of it at the start and I think that understanding, it just can’t come from an org chart. And so frequently, we rely on these org charts and they just don’t tell the true story for really getting actually inside the client’s organization. Getting to know it as well as you know the process in your agency is the essential key to getting around that situation.

Drew: Yeah. And so I can hear the agency owners now going, “Well, yeah, that’s great. I’m gonna have an account service person in there for a week, I wanna get paid for that.” My argument against that would be, this is part of your new business development investment. Because not only will you understand the politics but now your account service person, and by the way this should not be somebody super junior, this needs to be somebody who can have business conversations, right? But they also now have relationships with five, or six, or eight people inside the organization, as opposed to your one client contact. And that’s always a precarious position for agencies, when they only know and have access to one or two people inside the company. That person moves on or gets let go, now all of a sudden, you’re dangling on the end of a very thin thread.

Chantell: Yeah, absolutely. You’ve got to get to know more than one person in the company. And actually, even just getting to know them face-to-face makes a huge difference as well. I’ve worked with agencies before where I’ve worked with team members who I’ve never even met. And it’s so hard to have a good working relationship with someone when you don’t even know what their face looks like, as strange as that may sound. But it’s not as tangible and you need to build that relationship personally. And it is an upfront investment in time, putting someone in there for a week. But, for one, they can still work on other work on their laptop whilst they’re there, you know? They can still do bits, take an hour out or whatever as they need to manage other clients.

But also, it’s an investment to make sure you’re gonna have to spend less time in the future because you’ll be able to better service the client in a more efficient way, because of that understanding. Because that initial investment in time up-front and you’ll have better relationships to better manage any hurdles that come up in things. It will pay off hugely as time goes on in the relationship. But it’s just making sure the foundations are strong at the start by building that understanding.

Drew: Yeah. And I often think that the more tentacles you have inside the organization, the more opportunities there are for work. So it’s not just the marketing department that may need your help, it might be the HR department, or the sales department, or the R&D department, so there’s also opportunity to grow the business while you are hanging out there.

Chantell: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’ve worked on accounts where we’ve picked up other new products that they’re developing by getting to know the client really well and hanging out at their offices, and things, you know? You can pick up other accounts even, you can pick up other bits of the business just by being there, being involved, offering additional solutions over and above just what your bits are, your reement is on it. Actually, just being a partner to them. And you need to be there to be a partner to them and get to understand them. And yeah, it’s a great new business strategy at the same time.

Drew: Yep. Okay, so that was one of the two things that you think agencies don’t really understand about clients and then I siderailed us for a minute. So come back now and tell us what was the other thing that you had in mind, that agencies really don’t seem to understand about the client-side of the world?
Chantell: Well, so, another one is kind of…it’s a lot more basic than that. Because I think that first one, it’s really fundamental to what clients really want because if you did that first one right it would unlock so many other things as well.  Because it’s core to just understanding what it’s like in your client’s company, which links into everything essentially. And another one, which would be also…but it does come up a lot. Clients tend to work different hours to agencies. And, I think, as agencies, we forget that a lot of the time because at agencies, we unfortunately work all hours. And a lot of the time, we work till pretty late each day. And it’s just kind of normal agency-side that you’ll be in the office till like 6:30 – 7:00. And actually when I worked agency-side, if I left at 6:30, I was skipping down the street with joy. I’d left positively early if I got out the door at that time. That was like getting an extra weekend.

It’s not the case for clients. And so, I think, agencies fall down quite a lot by, they send work through to clients 6:30, 7:00 in the evening, and then they get annoyed when they don’t get a response ’til the next morning. And I’ve even heard judgement in agencies, voices before talking to a client and being like, “But we sent it at 6:30, why weren’t you there?” But it’s how a client’s world works. Clients tend to get in early actually, usually. A lot of the time, you’ll find clients in the office from 7 a.m. but bang on 5:30, they’re out the door and they’re on their way home. You know, there’s a time shift. You need to know clients…it’s not the case in all agencies but you need to find out, what are your clients working hours? should be one of the first questions you ask. What are their typical working hours? And then work to them as much as you can but if you’re doing stuff outside of them, as long as you’re aware that those aren’t their normal working hours, you can call them or text them and say, “Hey, would it be okay if you look at this?” or “This is gonna come through outside of those hours.” But otherwise, you’re working at odds with each other. You’re not working on the same page as each other, and so you’re frequently gonna have these miscommunications where agencies think the client’s gonna be reviewing stuff, and they’re not gonna be reviewing anything because they’re at home with their kids by that point. Again, it comes back to communicating and understanding what’s going on with each other, and actually properly spending the time and effort to think through all of that, and get all the answers to those questions, so you can better work with them in a partnership.

Drew: And that’s a really great point. The other thing that I encourage agency account service to understand is, what is the cadence of your client’s meeting schedule? So, for example, if your client has to report in on marketing activities every Thursday at 2:00, then you wanna make sure that you have your weekly update document to them that tells them where everything’s at, and what’s on time, and what’s on-budget, by the end of the day Wednesday, so that they can have time to review it and then make any changes on the progress of those jobs, prior to them having to step up in front of their boss and say, “Here’s where we’re at with things.”

Chantell: Yeah, and that’s it. I mean, I worked with an agency when I was client-side who were excellent at that. Like, they knew we had a meeting same time every week, so they prepped for that every single week. They made sure we had everything ready for that meeting every single week. Because they knew that was our slot, that was when we were presenting to the rest of the business. And it made our lives as clients so much easier, and also stopped any embarrassment. And that’s a key thing, you know. When agencies leave a client without the work in time, or without updates, or without knowing what’s going on, when they’re then talking to their bosses, it leaves them exposed to being embarrassed by not being on top of their job.

Drew: Absolutely.  

Chantell: Yeah, so the agency who does that, who works around what the client’s meetings schedules are, what their timings are and everything, they’re the ones who come out on top because they’re the ones who actually…they formed a partnership. They’ve gone, “Hey, okay, this is how you guys work, so we’ll work like that with you as well.” You know, “We wanna work the same as you.”


Agencies Overpromise and Underdeliver

Drew: Yeah. And that leads right into something else you talk about in your book, the whole idea of agencies who stumble because they overpromise and underdeliver. So talk a little bit about that phenomenon because that’s a pet peeve of mine. I’m stunned at agencies who think deadlines are optional, or that when you tell a client you’re gonna have something to them by end of day Thursday, they get it Friday morning, or whatever it may be. So talk a little bit about that and your solutions for that.

Chantell: Yeah. I mean, it happens a lot. As I mentioned earlier, work gets delayed, these things happen. I mean, any account manager worth their salt should always add in extra time to timing plans, it goes without saying. But these things do still happen at the end of the day. And, as agencies, it can be so tempting, one, to try and, when you’re given tight timings in the first place, to go, “Yeah, all right, we can do it, we can do it,” and crunch every bit of buffer time out of that timing plan because your client really wants it by a certain date.

Or when your clients call up at the last minute and go, “Oh, I need it a day earlier,” to turn around and say, “Yes, you can do it.” Because especially, I think people in account management in general, we kind of tend to like to pull the matchstick out of the bag and kinda save the day, and be a hero, and show we can turn around anything, in any time. But when you overpromise and underdeliver, you’re just setting yourself up for a fall. Because, as a baseline, just as a hygiene factor, clients expect agencies to deliver work on time. That’s not a, “You’ve done a good job, well done,” if you deliver it on time. That’s the baseline, so anything later than that and you’ve messed up essentially. So when you go around overpromising, you’re never gonna come out winning from that situation. Either, you manage to come out and you delivered on time, so well, great, you’ve lived up to the baseline expectation but you haven’t done anything wonderful. Or you’re late on it, and then you’ve messed up and you start this bad relationship, where the client’s then starting to get annoyed with you.  

So there’s no benefit to it. And it can be really hard but if your clients are putting you under extreme time pressure, it is more than reasonable to turn around and have an honest conversation with them. It truly is what clients really want from you as their partner. Talk to them about what is feasible, what isn’t, and say, even discuss the things where you can say, “Look, we’ll try everything we possibly can to deliver it by X but we cannot promise it.” And show them the different paths of timing, show them the options. Because if you don’t do that, if you just try to say yes, be the ‘yes’ man, you risk actually doing more harm to the relationship than good, when you don’t manage to deliver on that “yes” that you gave them in the first place.

Drew: Yeah. I think where it gets really complicated is when it’s the client who has delayed the timeline. But again, to your point, I’m a firm believer in rather than giving due dates, it’s X number of days from this point to that point, so that if a client takes five days to do a review process that was allotted for two, you saying to them, “Okay, look, this has pushed us back three days, we will try and make up some of that time.” It’s sort of like the pilot who takes off late, right? “We’re gonna try and make up some time in the air but we’ll get there when we get there. So understand that this delay may push back the actually delivery date”.

Chantell: Yeah, absolutely and that’s a great way to do it, giving, you know, “It’s five days between this point and this point.” So whenever you approve it, it’s still gonna be five days in between and we will do everything we can to get better on that. But giving actual, “These are the timeslots,” for how long those bits of the process take upfront is really helpful.

Drew: Yep, yep. I also think that AE’s tend to, and you alluded to this earlier in our conversation, tend to avoid difficult conversations. And I think one of the skill sets that agency owners need to interview for is the ability and willingness to go into uncomfortable conversations with…and understanding it from the client’s perspective but also being willing to sort of say, “Look, we’re not gonna be able to do this,” or “The budget called for five rounds of revision and you’ve taken eight, and so that’s gonna require a change order,” or whatever it is. When you have those conversations early on and often, A, you train the client to get used to having those conversations but B, you’re helping them understand how to be a better client.

Chantell: Oh yeah, absolutely and it should. Even if the account management are doing their job well, and are properly factoring how things are for the client, and always having those conversations upfront, it should get to the stage where if the client calls up for more rounds of amends than they actually have allowed for in the budget etc, or they’re doing something which will delay the timings, that they should be going in that phone call to the agency, “Okay, I need to change this again, how much extra will it be because I know where we’re out of scope of now?” Like, it should be that much awareness of it, that they know what their scope is and what their scope isn’t. And so it’s not a difficult conversation, there’s nothing surprising. It’s just, “Okay, well we’ve had our scope, this isn’t part of it so we talk about it now.” But that only comes over time and over account management doing it time and time again. So it’s not a, “Oh, they’re trying to rip us off now,” it’s just, “That’s just how the finances will work. That’s just how this situation is”.


What Makes a Great Agency Partner?

Drew: Yeah. So, earlier you talked about an agency that was really on top of things and really helped you stay informed. What makes a great agency partner? From a client’s perspective, what makes an agency an agency you couldn’t imagine ever firing?

Chantell: So I fundamentally think there are two things to creating great client-agency relationships. One is stopping doing the stuff that annoys clients. And the second is doing the stuff that takes it from good to great. I think a lot of agencies assume that they’re at the baseline of, you know, “Everything’s okay.” But actually, agencies frequently do stuff that takes them to minus numbers in that, by doing the stuff that annoys clients. And then, even if you do stuff which makes the relationship great, if you’ve still got that negative going on pulling on away from it, you’re not gonna have a consistently good relationship.

So, I think, as a agency, you need to do both parts of that. You need to stop the behaviors that make client’s life harder essentially, and then work on the things that make the client’s life easier. That’s essentially taking away the bad stuff and get in to the good stuff and taking it to great is when you start actively making the client’s life easier. When everything you’re doing as an agency is just…it’s almost like you’re part of the team for the client, you’re always there, the client doesn’t have to ask you for things. You already know what the client’s gonna need at different times, or whatever gonna be the important business issues coming up for them. You’ve already thought all that stuff through and you’re thinking as if the client’s business was your business. So you’re thinking about what they need in terms of common sense, not what you’ve been told to do. Maybe you’ve been told to write a TV ad or whatever. You’re thinking about everything that might be important to the client at any moment in time. And that’s the stuff that really takes it to great, the stuff where you’re actively thinking for them and helping them in their marketing planning role essentially.

Drew: So in the book, you identify quite a list of things that agencies do that sort of disintegrate the relationship. What’s the biggest offender of that, do you think?

Chantell: It has to be attention to detail. I know a lot of people talk about attention to detail a lot but honestly, it’s gotta be attention to detail. I have never seen anything cause so many difficulties in client-agency relationships as attention to detail does. And it’s amazing because it’s technically such a small thing, and yet the difficulties that arise out of it. And I know agencies always talk about, to their account management teams, “You need to get better at attention to detail” or “Attention to detail is really important.” But what always seems to be missing from that is explaining why it’s so important to clients, that attention to detail is so fundamental and why they care about it so much.

But the second you go client-side, within a minute, you know why it matters so much. And it’s because it takes your time. When agencies present work which has errors in, or typos, or anything like that, it just wastes client’s time because there’s so much more back-and-forth basically. And that’s the key fundamental of it. And clients are hard-pushed for time. They have a lot of meetings, in general. And so, these additional rounds of reviews they have to do because there are typos and things, wears down at them over time and it really does build up a lot of, I guess, underlying resentment towards the agency, that they’re taking all of that time away from them when they could be getting on with their job.

Drew: Yeah, you know, we do research every year talking to CMO’s about their relationships with agencies. And what we did last year, we did one that was all about why agencies get hired and fired, and it was fascinating and sort of horrifying to me how often the idea that typos get agencies fired or get them “removed from the set of agencies I’m going to consider.” That agencies are literally sending proposals and RFP responses with typos in them. And I think agencies understand in the abstract level that typos are bad. But what I think most agencies haven’t done is they haven’t built process and system around making sure that their work is detail-oriented and correct.

Chantell: Exactly. Yeah, it makes an astonishing difference.